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Author Topic: Poof goes the Morningstar MPPT 60 controller  (Read 37790 times)
Outtasight
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« Reply #75 on: March 09, 2012, 10:27:20 PM »

stephendv,
Yes, that MPPT controller looks like it may get me out of my hole, at 240vdc as 8 panels, (each tracker) can be connected up in series. ? What do you think outtasight?

Although, it looks like i will have to save up a bit more as its £200 more than the Morningstar MPPT 60.

Just checked the site and possible moving the trackers, but not good and insufficient space for shade free operation, however i do it, the cable run with either 240vac or 240vdc will be 100m to 120m, whats the losses?.

Sorry, been pre-occupied with other work/blogging type stuff lately.

I think 8 of your panels would still be too much, even for the Midnite controller.  It's good to 250Voc DC but at 30Voc, your panels will put out 240V at 25C ambient temperature.  At -10C they'll put out more and the Midnite might go into its protection mode where it won't blow up but it also won't output any power (they call it hyperVOC, I think).  Basically it means the controller can handle 250V + the battery Voltage (48V)... nearly 300V without blowing up but in that situation it hibernates to prevent damage to the PWM stage of the charger.

At 15A Imp for the combined output of the two trackers with 8 modules each, the Morningstar wiring table suggests that 70mm2 would produce a 2% Voltage loss at 109m run, so 2% of the total array Vmp is 3.84V at 15A = 57W loss.  At 35mm2, double the V loss to 7.68V x 15A = 115W.  For 17.5mm2, double it again to 15.36V x 15A = 230W.  So for your 20mm2 cable, figure on max. losses of about 200W over 110m.

You could live with that.  

The only other sensible alternative is to go for the trackers in series and do 384Vmp over the 4 core (assuming the insulation will take 480Voc...) into a grid tied inverter at the battery hut and send all the PV 230VAC power up another line to the house to back-feed the grid.  You're right about the other problem... A GTI isn't going to play nicely with an off-grid inverter, as it will try to back-feed the off-grid inverter if the load is less than the GTI power input.  That's what it's designed to do; back-feed the AC source.  Off grid inverters don't like it.

Two off-grid inverters tied together at the AC outputs is a sure fire way to make magic smoke unless they are designed for "teaming".
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:37:52 PM by Outtasight » Logged

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camillitech
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« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2012, 06:19:42 AM »





You could live with that.  

The only other sensible alternative is to go for the trackers in series and do 384Vmp over the 4 core (assuming the insulation will take 480Voc...) into a grid tied inverter at the battery hut and send all the PV 230VAC power up another line to the house to back-feed the grid.  You're right about the other problem... A GTI isn't going to play nicely with an off-grid inverter, as it will try to back-feed the off-grid inverter if the load is less than the GTI power input.  That's what it's designed to do; back-feed the AC source.  Off grid inverters don't like it.

Two off-grid inverters tied together at the AC outputs is a sure fire way to make magic smoke unless they are designed for "teaming".

Morning Outta,

some off grid inverters are quite happy to 'back feed' the battery bank, Victron, Studer, some Trace and of course the SI's only snag is you need extra charge control.

Some excellent reading here in a gem that Billi found http://currentgeneration.co.nz/site/current/files/Partial%20AC-coupling%20in%20Minigrids.pdf

It's what I'm doing on the new build.

Cheers, Paul
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Outtasight
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« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2012, 09:16:14 AM »

Thanks camillitech, so they do.  If they're designed for parallel operation (like the Victron Phoenix / Multiplus) then that's ok.

ClockmanFR has only got a spare APC 5000 UPS inverter though.  Pretty sure that would blow up if he plugged its AC output together with the other off-grid inverter he's got on the turnip batteries.

Oh, and while on the subject of the APC, in answer to your much earlier Q ClockmanFR... no, it won't work without the batteries on the APC input (trying to plug the PV directly into the APC DC input).

We've kinda gotten off topic here too... It was stephendv's thread to begin with Smiley
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« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2012, 08:37:23 PM »

Yes, very sorry stephendv. genuflect

Thanks Outtasight for yet again a very understandable and sensible reply.

Will look at Paul's link.
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biff
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« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2012, 10:08:37 AM »

Morning folks,
              This has developed into a fantastic mine of information and i am sure Stephend will welcome it.Thanks Paul for digging up Billi,s gem and of course thanks to Outta and C/M and everyone.As you all know my system is 120vdc to the AC and i have often wondered if i could use it like the grid and put a GTI on the solar.I have a new array planned,12 x 24volt x 180watt panels.
     The origional plan was very simple,just two strings going into the battery and two controllers to redirect the excess to water heaters.However the more i study billi,s gem the more i like it.At the moment it is a bridge to far but as time goes on i will definatly give it a lot of healthy consideration and perhaps there will be more information.perhaps pics and info from pauls installation,?
                      Good stuff folks
                                       Biff
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stephendv
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« Reply #80 on: March 19, 2012, 11:44:59 AM »

Hehe, I'm from south africa originally so don't mind the occasional hijacking   Grin

Morningstar tech responded to the issue they had and said that they're currently investigating.  FWIW, I think it's an issue with the "reset control" function in MS-View and not a Voc issue since another guy had the same thing happen to him, while only running at 60Voc.
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billi
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« Reply #81 on: March 19, 2012, 05:19:29 PM »

Hey Biff   ......  i am still a happy  DC  charging  person     with my MPPT controllers ....   , but i   am happy as well to know   , that i could charge   through my Victron Inverters as well  ,  via AV coupling  ,   so i could run  all of my 4 kw PV via a Gridtie inverter   into my system ( if i would need to ) , and  it somehow  relaxes me today , to have that option  ( cause one will find cheap (good) Gridtie inverters (most secondhand) for little money  nowadays

But  , if i would start our house system again ,  i  possibly would go half half  ( half direct PV-MPPT charge the battery  via controller  other half AC coupled  via GTI  )

I also do not know  , if charging through my Victron  inverters (AC coupled)    would help  their lifetime (cause additional permanent charging is added to their inverting ability  and the whole unit has to work harder, while using a MPPT external charger   means the internal charger of my inverter stays off   ) , but that is just a silly thought perhaps

Billi
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« Reply #82 on: March 19, 2012, 05:31:01 PM »

I also do not know  , if charging through my Victron  inverters (AC coupled)    would help  their lifetime (cause additional permanent charging is added to their inverting ability  and the whole unit has to work harder, while using a MPPT external charger   means the internal charger of my inverter stays off   ) , but that is just a silly thought perhaps

Not silly at all, but I think it would work the other way around too: once your battery bank is fully charged then the victron would effectively take a break and relax and all the AC loads would be supplied by the GTI.  The real danger with a full AC coupling idea is that you have a single point of failure with the battery inverter- if you lose it, you also lose the ability to charge batteries.
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eabadger
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« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2012, 08:00:54 PM »

Hello my mppt60 went bang, supplier said it was cheep panels going over volts o/c when cold, but when it happened lowest temp was around zero, since then temperature plummeted to -18 allegedly -30 windchill!! Froze the diesel in the ebersparcher heater, froze the water in the heating rads as well.

Anyway I looked inside the mppt and the screws on the heatsink for the mossfetts were not tight, I recon without forced cooling that was the cause of the demise, anyway supplier replaced board foc and returned, it is working well, later version of firmware as well installed, have left panels on low volts for now, around 44v max o/c, got to rewire soon, but plan to keep below 100v.

steve
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« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2012, 08:25:25 PM »

Just got the MPPT 60 for my PV panels, I have been done. Roll Eyes

There is no load diversion facility. Sad

So once the batteries are charged up then the MPPT60 controller switches off, what a swizz.

My other 3 TS45's (48v wind turbines) are configured so that they allow 56.8v charge rate, excess is dumped to my Dump load heaters in the house.

When the batteries are full and the controllers go to float, the dump loads are working hard. So i pop the Inverter on and switch the house circuits over.

Also the DIP switches on the MPPT60 only allow a 56.6v charge rate that's nearest to my 56.8v on my other Tristars.

 sh*tfan
 
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billi
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« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2012, 12:57:54 AM »

all i can say is


and i am the Outback controller   skinny      singer   in that case


 But may i ask , what did you expect  ?


And why   you did not ask enough
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stephendv
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« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2012, 08:27:21 AM »

Steve, sorry to hear about the failure.  Hope you didn't get charged for the repair if it was an assembly fault.

clockman, yes there is no dump feature on it and no relay- but that's quite well known.  You can change all the settings using the free MS-View software and a normal ethernet cable between your computer and the controller.  There are many many more settings to play with than are available through the dip switches.

If you want to turn on loads you could use the additional morningstar relay driver to do so.  But note that it just provides relays (on or off), not a variable PWM dump load like you get through your other tristars. 
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« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2012, 01:15:46 PM »

I believe there is a document explaining how to do this, I suggested rd1 board but morningtsar said not needed.
Also it didn’t seem clear to me, but all web changes only come in to effect when “custom” dip switch is switched on.
I will dig out info Morningstar sent me.



steve
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« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2012, 01:19:30 PM »

here it is, i still want a rd1 board as i want to automate generator starting and use as a wind turbine controller.

steve

* Diversion mode Tristar settings.pdf (96.73 KB - downloaded 304 times.)
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1kw wind turbine.
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« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2012, 01:29:12 PM »

sorry but  we talk of the MPPT  version   from Mornigstar



and   this is totally stubit from them    not to give their MPPT controller another name  than tristar
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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