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Author Topic: Looking for manufacturer of dc immersion heaters  (Read 29486 times)
biff
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« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2012, 02:02:52 PM »

So yesterday and the day before,I watched and waited to see if my water heater in the downstairs hall was going to work and was somewhat disappointed that nothing came off it.Not an utter.The set up has 3 seperate controller connected to the battery bank.1 for the wind turbine,1 for the old 120vdc x 650array and 1 inside the house for the new 1kw array,connected directly to the hall water heater.To be honest the wind turbine was only going through the motions up till this morning and the solar was trying to deliver and did not have the power.This morning the breeze got up,we were promised winds up to 50mph but so far there has only been what amounts to less than a force 6 but that is enough to put the turbine on its max and this morning it was delivering 139v x 11.5amps and with a couple of amps from both arrays was able to send the 3 controllers into the dump load voltage.
  So all is looking good,The controller downstairs in the hall is breathing steady and the water heater should be getting the benifit.
   It just remains now to connect up the new upstairs hot water cylinder to the turbine dump load,This I will do when the weather settles.I dont fancy being in the middle of trying to bypass the big 2kw resistors and a charge of 139volts suddenly going into my fingers,,not good.
   I will leave the old 120v x 650watt with its own controller and resistors for the time being because i dont quite know how much heat and power the immersions can absorb.At the moment there is the equivelant of 6kw in dump load and they are all working this morning.
                                                                 Biff
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« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2012, 02:17:41 PM »

The wind has been blowing steady for the past 24 hours,Not a gale but a steady force 5 perhaps,The water heater in the hall is performing as it should and the fans in the controller can be heard blowing when the charge passes through to the immersion.So it is working properly.
      It is really intresting to study and follow this setup.The turbine is capable of sending the battery voltage right up to the max but then it begins to brake and because the blades are much smaller than the origional blades the controller can hold it steady on 138vdc,so the solar chips in but the same controllers cannot hold back the solar and the dump load is triggered and the power flows straight through to the immersions.It seems a more gentle way of doing the business.I know if i replaced the origional large blades,the turbine would be able to heat the water on its own but i am aiming for a system that can operate automatically on its own without worrying about it,so reliability is the word.
        It is really difficult to know if Agrarians early furling tail would suit the system better.Ag is getting 1.9kws and my best from the turbine on its own has been just under 1600watt But i have another 1kw array to install in a few months time and i think it is wise to stick with the smaller blades for the time being because overspeeding does not seem to be a problem any more.
                                                                 Biff
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« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2012, 01:38:19 PM »

The weather today is proving ideal for our immersion installations,
                                           There is a force 5/6 blowing steady from the north and great prolonged bursts of sunlight breaking through the clouds at regular intervals.The combination of the new 1kw array and the old 650 watt array + the 2kw turbine is really doing the business,.Our new hot hotwater cylinder upstairs is toasty roasty and the water heater in the hall is now getting the benifit also.
        I decided to experiment and redirect the dumpload by disconnecting the one which i did not require by means of a single core anderson connector.This resulted in the combined power of the dumploads being directed into the water heater upstairs.After 3 hours the voltage had crept up to 146v and obviously the 2kw immersion in the upstairs hot water cylinder was not enough to safely contain the combined dump loads,so a quick click on the anderson connector on the controller downstairs brought the downstairs waterheater into play and the voltage gently returned to 139.The fans on the controller has been on constant today and i am thinking of replacing them with coloured led lights.The fan which cools the board will remain of course.So all in all,,its pretty cool,
                                                              Biff
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« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2012, 12:08:25 PM »

We had 4 visitors from the south staying with us from friday to yesterday afternoon,
                      So it was showers going upstairs and downstairs and plenty of hot water.The new H/W/C is a beezer and really does the business the wind blew gently and the solar kept pumping enough to keep the water hot throughout their stay.Herself put a small fire in the boiler yesterday morning,just rubbish that burned for about one hour.The visitors did remark on the heavy breathing coming from the controller near the water heater downstairs and i have to say they were mighty impressed asking for it to be explained several times,meanwhile we had the olympics on two big tellys,2 fridges and various others items needing charged.So it all works really well.
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« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2012, 12:53:45 PM »

The autum winds are increasing in strength and frequency.Still the sun delivers enough power through the arrays to slow the turbine down,however,yesterday and today the wind was from the north,steady and the turbine still kept delivering the juice,the 1kw array is delivering 8.5amps@140v bursts of sometimes 2 minutes and dropping off to 3 amps,This registers on the controller in the house but is redirected back down the line to the battery bank because the water heater in the hall is switched off.I discovered that having the controller next to the water heater gives that immersion first choice of the power,so by switching that off,all the juice goes upstairs to the hotwater cylinder and heats this,leaving it ready for showers,etc, So between the two 120volt arrays and the turbine there is a steady 2kw + coming into the hot water cylinder upstairs and over a period of 6 to 7 hours it does heat the tank very hot,however we have never had it on long enough to heat the whole tank and the 2kw immersion is only 18" long,so it would almost be bubbling out the expansion or circulation the heat through the C/H before it would even heat half way down.The tank is 1800mm high and 550mmwide including insulation,so its a big tank.The origional planning was to have a big enough tank that would absorb a good three days heat or dump loading without drawing off any hot.This would be easily achieved when the water heater in the hall is swirtched on.
 A few tweakes have made the system that bit more effecient and it now runs very good on its own.I am planning to install the 3rd 1kw array hopefull in the very near future.I would like it to be a tracker version but looking at how things have worked out and how good the system is performing,I am not sure if i really need another tracker.So i might just bolt a framework to my old container workshop and stick them up there. So far So good.
                                                                                    Biff
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clivejo
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« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2012, 04:10:36 PM »

Do you have any thermal cut out's on the immersions?  What happens if the first immersion to come on, boils the water?
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« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2012, 04:34:26 PM »

Hi Clive,
        No cutouts,no thermostats apart from the ones which trigger the pumps to circulate the hot round the C/H system,but the immersions must remain permanently switched on to the dump load circuit.
                                                       Biff
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« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2012, 05:33:08 PM »

have you not been tempted to turn the hot water tank upside down ?

that way the heater would heat from the bottom, and the heat dump would take heat from the top....


or do you prefer heating from the top so you get less hotter water, instead of more not as hot water ?
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« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2012, 06:40:05 PM »

Yo Knighty,
           I am not tempted to turn the hotwater cylinder upside down,Its full of water you know,,!!
 Heating from the top means we get very hot water on demand.
  However if it was heated in the middle then it would not matter what side was up or down but because it is not possible to heat the middle part unless i wait untill the top hot water reaches the bottom half,which would be quite a long wait indeed,then i could draw off the top water and leave the middle water more or less the same temperture,I trust that this information will be of great use to you and it gives me great pleasure to part with these gems in your direction.
                   Biff angel       
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« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2012, 08:44:38 PM »

I have been studying this thread very very carefully.

So i might bite the bullet and install another sealed non venting hot tank just to run on some of my 8kw of dump load from my assorted lot.

But nothing here is UK standard and heater elements are convector type within a void in the hot tank, so maybe i can wind a dump load coil and insert it?  Shocked
http://www.bricodepot.fr/castres/node/475110

Certainly biff you give me that courage to try.
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« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2012, 09:21:35 PM »

Hi clockman,
             I bought the waterheater in the hall downstairs last summer.It dont have a coil,instead it has what you could call a wrap around radiator enclosing a tank.it had its own built in immersion with stat which i did not use.it had a big boss right in the centre at the top in which I fitted a 2kw dump load.So to fit this to my central heating system,all i had to do was disconnect the existing rad and remove,then hook up the water heater in its place.Really simple.
  The tank in the middle was filled with a hosepipe and a little header tank fitted to take the expansion.When our boiler is fired up and the C/H comes on,the waterheater warms up and provides exellent background heat in the hall and if by chance the dump load heats the water that bit too hot,it has its own pump which send the excess heat round the C/H system.
   Before we installed this system we would light the boiler every other day for about 3 hours but now we just light it every 3 to 4 days because the water stays hot in the tanks.
  You would have no trouble getting the immersions made to suit your 48volt and whatever diameter of boss you have.It does seem to be the right way forward.                             Biff
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« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2012, 09:46:19 PM »

Biff, presume your incoming water is nice and soft, or even acidic from all those peat bogs?
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« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2012, 10:23:50 PM »

Clockman.  As the element is not sealed you should be able to tap it or cut it into 5 sections.
I'll dig out some photos from when I installed my bricomarche one.
Chris
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« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2012, 09:55:32 AM »

Found the pic.  I have a few more from different angles, but this one shows the general arrangement, 2kW immersion and thermostat (separate pockets)

This is the dry version which fits into a pocket.  You can get wet versions, but I've only seen them in the bargain bucket immersions.  As they are both fitted from the bottom, the wet ones mean wasting 200L of water to get to them.  That said, my dry one came with a 5 year warranty. The warranty is conditional on draining the tank annually and checking the sacrificial anode  wackoold

It looks to me like it's a normal heater coil made to fit the immersion. Probably constantin wire, which is what I use to make heated grips on the motor bike.  Looks like there are 10 wound pieces running top to bottom, so each piece will develop 230/10V = 23V.  The current through the chain is 2000/230 = 8.7A. So looks like you'll get 5 x 46V heaters, each one being 200W, (8.7A x 46V)  assuming it's series wound.  You'll need to take one apart, and use crimps to re-configure it.  Still, won't take long and you'll save a few bob.  There are nice big bolts on the base, for the 43A/46V load, or you could split it up into 200W increments - bit more flexible.

I used to cut up things like this when I was a lad to make variable rheostats...

Would be a lot easier, and probably no less efficient taking cable losses into account, to use a GTI. 
Chris


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« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2012, 11:50:55 AM »

Thanks biff, yet again a good explanation.

jonesy/Chris, yep all french heater elements are much the same. Never thought about splitting the element up, needs a bit of thought. And must take output from the turbine 42amp max at 60v max from the PWM tristar controller. Got 4 PWM Tristar controllers set for diversion dump.

One of My normal dump load heaters Resistance Nicrome wire at 3mm diameter, is 1.6ohm and i can shove max 42 amp at 60v into it, and i was just going to wind that on to the ceramic formers some how.



 
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