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Author Topic: Filtered Veg Oil for Renault Master  (Read 12257 times)
Renault Master 1998
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« on: April 29, 2012, 10:47:28 AM »

Hi, I am new to this forum so forgive me if I am posting in the wrong bit. I have a Renault Master T35 (1998) that I am looking to run on filtered vegetable oil. I just wondered if anyone knows if I can do this and also the legality of it or if you could point me in the direction of more information.

Thank you
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guydewdney
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2012, 10:52:28 AM »

legal, yes, up to 2500 litres per annum - will it work? dunno - but your best forum is vegetableoildiesel.co.uk imho
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2012, 11:09:17 AM »

Totally agree with Guy, and the forum he mentions is definitely your best bet.

Paul
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knighty
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2012, 08:33:10 PM »

check the veg oil forum.... but.... does it have a turbo ?

MASTER-2,5 D TURBO/1995-98/S9U 714/4cyl./2500ccm/69kW/93,84PS/BHP/3800min-1/BOSCH/RP/2-Tank-SE2023    2-Tank-Kit
MASTER-2,5 D TURBO/1996-98/S9U 740/4cyl./2499ccm/69kW/93,84PS/BHP/3800min-1/BOSCH/RP/2-Tank-SE2023    2-Tank-Kit
MASTER-2,5 D/1995-98/S8U 748/4cyl./2500ccm/55kW/74,8PS/BHP/4200min-1/BOSCH/RP/1-Tank    1-Tank-Kit
MASTER-2,5 D/1998-01/S8U 770/4cyl./2499ccm/59kW/80,24PS/BHP/4000min-1/BOSCH/RP/1-Tank    1-Tank-Kit
MASTER-2,5 D/1998-01/S8U 772/4cyl./2499ccm/59kW/80,24PS/BHP/4000min-1/BOSCH/RP/1-Tank    1-Tank-Kit



if it's the "1 tank kit" one then it's a piece of cake

if it's a "2 tank kit" one then it's probably not worth it unless you do lots of miles!
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spaces
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2012, 11:18:34 PM »

Think if it's for business purposes (since it's a large van I suppose there could be a possibility of this) then I seem to remember reading somewhere duty is applied on all fuel used. With plenty paying up to 50ppl for waste oil - even more on ebay (wackoold) - then with duty on top it starts to look very expensive given the drying and polishing required, not forgetting a 10%ish loss of economy and need for the engine and injectors to be in tip-top health, need for new seals and leak-off pipes etc. Consider making bio and there's more expense, both the chemicals and energy required as well as the equipment. Not to mention the hours in the shed.

I've read a few comments over on the vegoildiesel forum that for now it's had its day with all and sundry going round pubs offering 10 for every 20 litres of clearish liquid waste oil - oil which still contains water, salt, possibly sugar, cleaning fluids, vinegar and gawd knows what else. At least dead rats and mice don't harm your engine, provided they're 'filtered' out.

Some of them have suggested looking at wood gas as a cheaper alternative now that wvo has become 'mainstream'. If anyone can manage to build and encourage the authorities to accept a vehicle with a modded brazier smouldering away on the rear bumper, it's the vegoildiesel forum lot! Instead of old Mercedes and VW diesels with strong prices it'll be the almost-worthless petrol versions which are in demand...

On a brighter note, plenty are running dried, clean wvo at various percentages in vehicles which are not recommended for 'single tanking' if it's not worth lots of money - even Mercedes common rail diesels, the late 90s and early 2000s E class are very cheap because of their reputation for corroding. If your van is in use throughout the day and the engine never goes cold then twin-tanking on a 70-80% veg mix could make sense, only having to start from stone cold on the diesel tank.

If it is a turbo and has a Lucas-type pump then that's the problem on cold, viscous veg - as is the later Bosch 'VP44' type which was significantly cheapened from the earlier sort found on old Golfs and some Peugeot-Citroens. The engine itself is ok on veg, unlike most direct injection engines. Think the pre-2000 Espaces all had earlier (tougher) Bosch pumps, maybe one of those would suit? Otherwise if you've a free or cheap source of oil, then possibly a conversion to the older Bosch VP37 pump could make sense? Plenty have done this with the 2.1 PSA engine, using pumps from the 1.9 XUD.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 11:32:32 PM by spaces » Logged

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Les101
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 12:27:17 PM »

" not forgetting a 10%ish loss of economy "

Not sure about that - i ran my Hilux on fresh veg oil (95% Oil, 5% petrol) when the price was good & the performance was noticably better & fuel economy was certainly not worse. I would say it was better but not enough to measure.

Not good in cold weather as it gets too thick & had to put diesel in every so often when cold starting took a little longer than it should but a few gallons would sort that for a month.

Not sure what the long term problems would have been if I kept this up but the year or so I did it for more than paid for the truck in savings anyway
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M
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 01:16:14 PM »

Not good in cold weather as it gets too thick & had to put diesel in every so often when cold starting took a little longer than it should but a few gallons would sort that for a month.

Not sure what the long term problems would have been if I kept this up but the year or so I did it for more than paid for the truck in savings anyway

I remember reading with fascination of 'greaser' cars and 'greaser' kits being used in America as retro-fit on older diesels. There trick if my memory is working, was to add a secondary fuel tank, then run on diesel for the first few minutes to get up to temp, and to switch back to diesel for the last 2 mins of a journey (or a couple of mins of idling if forgotten) to clean the lines and injectors out.

Too long ago to remember properly, but I seem to recall that diesel consumption was tiny. I also think that these guys and gals were pretty much pouring used cooking oil straight in, after only filtering.

Mart.
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brackwell
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 02:48:22 PM »

A friend of mine ran a 406 (I think) on chip fat oil which he just filtered with no problems.  You do need a injector pump that is self lubricated and does not use the fuel to do this. Also for large % of oil you need bigger injectors.  As he relayed to me.

Ken
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knighty
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 03:59:51 PM »

it all depends on the car...

if it's an indirect injection engine, with a bosh pump chances are it'll run on 100% veg for 9 months of the year no problem, and the other 3 (cold) months you need to mix in a bit of petrol or diesel

you can get different injector tips fitted... but most people don't bother unless there injectors need servicing anyway


it helps if you add a heater to the fuel line, most people use a flat plate heat exchanger (same as in a combi boiler) and use the engine water to heat the oil

bigger fuel lines from the tank to the pump help too, so there's not as much restriction when the pump tries to suck the oil through

quite a few direct injection engines will run happily like that too (as long as they have the bosh pump) they're just not quite as good as indirect


there's 2 basic designs of fuel pumps (and a few copies of them) bosh or lucas - lucas pumps have a lift pump built into them, but the shaft for it is very weak and can easily snap trashing the pump - it's a problem when running on diesel, and even worse on thick veg



then... if you have something that doesn't like starting on cold veg oil you need to twin tank it... start up on diesel, wait till the engine is hot and then switch over to your 2nd tank which has veg oil in it..... a couple of miles before you stop you switch back to diesel to flush the lines/pump through so they';re full of diesel ready for the next time you start up

I've got a 2.2 common rail sprinter, and a 2.8 common rail Iveco both running twin tanked like that... both have done over 100,000miles on veg oil totally problem free :-)
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