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Author Topic: off-grid dump load query  (Read 9522 times)
Justme
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2012, 09:40:15 PM »

Billi,

In normal usage I would also change the Victrons battery charge profile from adaptive & manually set the settings.

Adaptive just does not work well.
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AlanM
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2012, 10:36:21 PM »

Hi Justme,
can you elaborate on the changes to the charge settings?

Billi, thanks for sticking the pic up
Alan
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billi
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2012, 10:50:05 PM »

sure Justme  ,   picture is only there to show , that the internal charger configurations   are useless /ignored , when "AC coupling" is done  , with a Victron Multi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
AlanM
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2012, 11:13:39 PM »

Hi billi,
had a look at the tristar, that looks like a good solution, as one of its 3 functions is to act as a dump controller. And max 60 amps at 58v will give me a sizeable dump.  Any suggestions for locating a fair priced one?  And dc immersions?
Seem to recall a thread a few weeks ago about these, will go and do a search on the forum to find out more.

Alan 
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billi
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2012, 12:18:34 AM »

..... make sure you use the Victons AC Dump as well (first) .....   to avoid overload of the Morningstar  DC dump  sh*tfan

I think  navitron are selling   the Morningstar as well ,    DC Dump elements  perhaps search    "emacandco"  on ebay 
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
camillitech
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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2012, 06:34:28 AM »

Morning Alan,

I've used these people a few times http://www.tpfay.co.uk/ excellent quality in both AC and DC versions. The Victron will not charge the batteries 'properly' as it is only backfeeding any excess straight into them but I don't really think it's an issue. Certainly doesn't seem to be with me doing the same thing with an SMA and my Trace. It just keeps them at whatever 'float' you set the dumps at. If you want to EQ just set it higher for a few hours.

I believe there is some issue about the 'type' of charge damaging the batteries, some kind of short pulses via the inverter but I'm fecked if I can find the document this morning but it's around here http://currentgeneration.co.nz/site/current/files/Partial%20AC-coupling%20in%20Minigrids.pdf 

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Justme
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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2012, 09:12:37 AM »

Hi Justme,
can you elaborate on the changes to the charge settings?

Billi, thanks for sticking the pic up
Alan

The adaptive setting alters the absorb phase relative to the bulk phase.

So a fast bulk = a short absorb when a fast bulk needs a slow absorb.

So put it on the fixed setting & then set the absorb times to match your bank & usage.
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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
stephendv
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2012, 01:42:23 PM »

I believe there is some issue about the 'type' of charge damaging the batteries, some kind of short pulses via the inverter but I'm fecked if I can find the document this morning but it's around here http://currentgeneration.co.nz/site/current/files/Partial%20AC-coupling%20in%20Minigrids.pdf 

Yes!  Strongly agree with billi's advice to get a DC dump load controller like the morningstar, because the type of AC coupling that Victron offers doesn't do a nice clean absorb charge.  It's a constant on/off cycling which is what that document refers to.  Maybe that would be fine if you were using the Victron in a grid tie setup and it only ever needed to charge via PV once in a while when the grid went down- but it definitely doesn't look like a good solution for permanent off-grid charging.



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Eleanor
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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2012, 12:12:02 PM »

I'm sure this is a daft question but I'm going to ask it anyway  Tongue

What would the Victron do if you plugged the charger into the "grid" side and made the charger into an AC consumer and the "grid" is the generator?  norfolk
Would it charge the batteries properly or just get totally confused and go off in a sulk  surrender
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AlanM
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2012, 12:21:25 PM »

Hi Eleanor,
not sure i understand, but there is no separate charger to plug in as a consumer. If the pv was connected to the  "ac in", it would not see grid and then would switch off.

If the generator is switched on, this does go in to the "ac in" and the charger operates in the correct way.

Have just tried to talk to the multi with the laptop, to use VE configure, but it doesn't seem to communicate. Just used the ethernet cable, but do i need something else as well...?
Alan
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billi
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« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2012, 12:28:51 PM »

Unfortunately you need a Victron VE Interface MK.2B USB   adapter  whistlie
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
AlanM
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« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2012, 12:33:35 PM »

Aha, i thought that was an adaptor if you only had a usb port. Just had a look, 55, "they're having a laff". Will see if i can borrow one from Caley marina...
Morningstar and dump immersions to add into system now,
Thanks, Billi,  Smiley
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Eleanor
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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2012, 12:50:43 PM »

Alan, as I said I'm sure it's a daft idea. What I meant is to leave the PV setup as it is with the GTI feeding into the AC output of the Victron. Can you run the generator and the PV at the same time and if so does the Victron do what it would normally do and send the generator output straight to the house and use what's left to charge the batteries? I was thinking that if you just connected the AC output into the AC input instead of the generator the Victron may charge the batteries properly. It just needs a "generator" and wouldn't know that it was connected to itself. Or would it? I don't know how the frequency shifting would be affected. Maybe a step too far  norfolk

Do you have the interface http://cclcomponents.com/product.asp?ID=1566 You may also need a serial to USB converter. Ah, Billi got there first again  genuflect

From memory the sequence for connecting is to switch the inverter off, plug in connector, start up software, it should ask if you want to automatically detect the port to which I say yes. It should see the Victron and tell you to switch it on. Once, when the laptop was being fixed I spent ages connecting cables from inside to the tin shed so I could use the desktop. Got to the point where I shut down the Victron and realised there was no power for the  PC  wackoold
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AlanM
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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2012, 01:02:34 PM »

I see what you mean now, Have no idea if it would work though.
Idea of pv is to avoid generator use as much as possible. Perhaps, as Stephen mentioned not the ideal set up, but have been planning this for years, with wind being the main power source, and victron bought couple of years ago. The PV array is only a recent component as prices dropped and fits made it doable. Hence the large array, and i may not bother with wind, although i have a perfect spot here,  (7.2ms) its windier than some of the windfarms i work on!

Alan
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camillitech
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« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2012, 01:13:01 PM »

hysteria hysteria
. Got to the point where I shut down the Victron and realised there was no power for the  PC  wackoold


 hysteria  hysteria in the bad old days of only 6 hours power a day from Mr Lister I would do that regularly, things like set the video before going to the pub, then turn off the genny as I left  Roll Eyes

PS, hows the mantis  Wink
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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