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Author Topic: Any surprises with 2 Victron's in Parallel?  (Read 5643 times)
stephendv
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« on: July 05, 2012, 11:43:57 AM »

A friend is designing an off-grid system and I suggested 2 x 2kW Victron's to have some redundancy in case of hardware failure.  Are there any hidden surprises with this setup, or will it work as described?
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camillitech
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 12:02:30 PM »

Think it's a good idea Stephen, pretty sure Billi does it, strikes me has having a lot of advantages, redundancy and better efficiency being two that spring to mind. Extra battery banks or twin engines on a boat are a PITA but two inverters, I could live with that  Cool

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
stephendv
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 12:07:08 PM »

The chap also wants to supersize the solar and forego a generator, which I think is quite doable in Spain given that even in cloudy weather you can get 5% of rated power from PV.... so perhaps even advise him to get the Victron Phoenix without charger, which means 2 x 2kW for 1600 Euros total.  He could then always add a separate emergency charger if he finds he really needs it.  No auto-passthrough of generator, but then that could be an advantage since he can get a non-AVR gen and always run the house on inverter power even while the gen is on  Smiley
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billi
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 06:48:55 PM »

No problem here  , since the first day with two 3000 kva   units in parallel , actually i should switch one of most of the times  (but i think i need a better/smaller well- pump , to grant 3000 kva are enough )

But in general ,they both  form one unit  ...without trouble

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
stephendv
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 08:56:33 AM »

Thanks guys.  Any unexpected gotchas using Phoenix inverters instead of Multi's ?  Can the phoenix's also be programmed using the same USB thingy as the multis?
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billi
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 10:15:18 AM »

Stephen ,  it sounds like  that , in the description , that you can access the unit and program via usb  adapter


Sure , one can question the need of  an inverter charger unit , as you know i was never pleased with my AC  generators charging through the Victron Multiplus

Think that  alternatives like this , are a better choice


* trans.jpg (103.2 KB, 709x572 - viewed 1069 times.)
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Eleanor
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 10:59:57 AM »

I'm in a bit of a sulk with Victron as it was always our intention to buy a second Multiplus to use in parallel with our existing unit. When we were talking about the fact that the latest Multiplus has a charging curve for traction batteries and can charge up to 34V I decided to enquire about it. I was told that the old and new versions aren't compatible and there's no way of making them work together  fume
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camillitech
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 09:21:19 PM »

Stephen ,  it sounds like  that , in the description , that you can access the unit and program via usb  adapter


Sure , one can question the need of  an inverter charger unit , as you know i was never pleased with my AC  generators charging through the Victron Multiplus

Think that  alternatives like this , are a better choice

For the cost of that Billi you could have a decent Lister that would last you a lifetime and you could pass on to the young Billi  Grin

Four generators, 'off grid' since 1985 and all still working well  Wink right enough one of my AVR's failed in 2010 but it was built in 1974  Wink

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
billi
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 10:24:51 PM »

Hey Paul   , i know ...... and as we grow older , we grow wiser   ( perhaps its a lack of brain cells left  whistlie)


If i would have known you  earlier , sure a Lister would be in small Billi s  house ,

If PV would have been as dirt cheap as it is now , i would never ever have bought a Diesel generator  years back

I guess i spent about 3000 Euro on Generators and 1500Euro  fuel , the last 5 years   
 (rough guess)


So about 8  kw of  PV  today

Billi


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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
camillitech
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 10:39:19 PM »



So about 8  kw of  PV  today

Billi




And a lot quieter  Cool but me Billi, even when I'm totally free from the shackles of oil, which I will be soon



will always have a Lister, for the day when the sun don't shine, the wind don't blow, the hydro is frozen and the Victron has been struck by lightning (happened to me yesterday)  Grin

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
stephendv
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 08:29:15 AM »

Mmmmmmm, another factor to complicate the decision of the 2 Victrons.  Someone on another forum mentioned that SMA would send out a replacement inverter while the existing one is being repaired (under guarantee).  And because of how the outbacks are modularly built, they can ship out a replacement board very quickly too.  Victron on the other hand doesn't offer these services....   and from what Eleanor said, if you need exactly the same victrons to work in parallel, then if in 10 years time one of the victron's breaks down, you're going to have to find exactly that model to replace it with- else you'll have to replace both!

Tough decision...  Maybe a single 3kW phoenix or outback is a better decision, then when it breaks down either buy a 1kW backup while it's being repaired or a 3kW replacement.
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Eleanor
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 10:29:01 AM »

I'm going to check on this in case the information I was given was wrong or something has changed. Maybe Yotty types with 6 in parallel can afford to replace all of them if one fails and it can't be repaired  ralph
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billi
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 01:52:32 PM »

as far as i know , one can upgrade the internal Firmware to a newer Version , but do not know if that then helps to enable an older model with a newer one http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Updating%20your%20computer%20and%20Multi%20to%20VEConfigure%20III%20-%20v3.pdf
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Eleanor
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 10:40:09 PM »

Billi, it would be good to think that they are now compatible. The document is dated 22nd June 2012 so maybe they have made the change since I contacted them  fingers crossed!
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