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Author Topic: Veggie oil in VW Passat  (Read 17114 times)
hughie
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Hughie


« on: July 11, 2012, 04:08:08 PM »

Hi all,

having just joined this forum thought I'd share that we've been running our last 2 VW Passats on rapeseed oil mix for 60-70 000 miles with no problems other than making a mess with the funnel sometimes.

We buy from Makro at around £1.10 per litre and that's still a considerable saving for us cos we do about 15000 mls per year.

Straight into the tank with oil to diesel 70-30%. We ran in the south of France on 100% rapeseed. Of course the veggie needs to be less percentage in winter - you can tell when u have it wrong cos the car takes a few seconds to start.#

Hughie
A bit of diy solar and pv
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smegal
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2012, 04:13:27 PM »

Just out of interest. What year are we talking for the passat?
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hughie
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Hughie


« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 11:04:31 AM »

1st was 2003 B5.5

2nd is 2006 B6

Why u ask?

.. Hughie
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smegal
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 11:19:36 AM »

I was just wondering how new a car can accept veggie. 2003 is newer than I expected.

Smiley
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julian
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 01:52:15 PM »

I thought makro price was more like £18.50 for 20l ktc at the moment?

What engines do you have in the passats?  I would have thought the 2006 would be a PD injection system.  In which case, much as id like to say otherwise, i fear for you.
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climber
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 11:50:32 AM »

I thought makro price was more like £18.50 for 20l ktc at the moment?

What engines do you have in the passats?  I would have thought the 2006 would be a PD injection system.  In which case, much as id like to say otherwise, i fear for you.

I'm on the lookout for a VW 1.9tdi - does anyone know what year the dreaded PD engine was introduced in the Passat or Golf?

I'd like to have the option to run on Veg and would like to avoid overly-complex engines.

BTW, I've just spotted a 1998 Audi A4 1.9tdi on Fleabay with 280,000 on the clock - that's impressive!

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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 01:30:52 PM »

golf is about 2002 ish, but you cant just go by the year, as it wasnt a clean break.

you really need to know the engine code, or, failing that, just be able to have a look at the engine bay.

as far as bhp goes -

100
130
150

are all PDs

90
110

are non PD

wikipedia will tell you the engine codes - the vw engine pages are pretty good on wikipedia - better than some other cars for sure.


i have a 51 plate (2nd half of 2001) golf mk 4 (ALH engine code - 90 bhp)
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2012, 01:53:15 PM »

Hi all,

having just joined this forum thought I'd share that we've been running our last 2 VW Passats on rapeseed oil mix for 60-70 000 miles with no problems other than making a mess with the funnel sometimes.

We buy from Makro at around £1.10 per litre and that's still a considerable saving for us cos we do about 15000 mls per year.

Straight into the tank with oil to diesel 70-30%. We ran in the south of France on 100% rapeseed. Of course the veggie needs to be less percentage in winter - you can tell when u have it wrong cos the car takes a few seconds to start.#

Hughie


A bit of diy solar and pv

Wow, that's impressive - most who understand the diesel injection system would have expected yours to have failed by now. Remember the vast cost of replacing injectors or the pump with these newer diesels, especially when the savings are marginal if you're buying new oil (which can be had for 70-80ppl, by the way, if you buy 1000 litres at a time.) What sort of ratios were you running in sub-zero temps?
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climber
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2012, 07:26:16 PM »

golf is about 2002 ish, but you cant just go by the year, as it wasnt a clean break.

you really need to know the engine code, or, failing that, just be able to have a look at the engine bay.

as far as bhp goes -

100
130
150

are all PDs

90
110

are non PD

wikipedia will tell you the engine codes - the vw engine pages are pretty good on wikipedia - better than some other cars for sure.


i have a 51 plate (2nd half of 2001) golf mk 4 (ALH engine code - 90 bhp)

Thanks Julian - usefull information.

Just to confuse matters, there are also 115 Golfs around this age!  facepalm

The 90 and 110 variants appear to be thin on the ground round my neck of the woods.........
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Tombo
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2012, 08:00:59 PM »

I have to say it because nobody else has. Running cars on food is somewhat morally dubious. Please try to use filtered waste vegetable oil instead, its even cheaper than new oil.  
Vegetable oil is a globally traded commodity, therefore your UK produced virgin  rape seed oil that you are burning in a Diesel engine could well be being replaced by palm oil grown on cleared virgin rain forest.  
   
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2012, 09:29:15 PM »

I have to say it because nobody else has. Running cars on food is somewhat morally dubious. Please try to use filtered waste vegetable oil instead, its even cheaper than new oil.  
Vegetable oil is a globally traded commodity, therefore your UK produced virgin  rape seed oil that you are burning in a Diesel engine could well be being replaced by palm oil grown on cleared virgin rain forest.  
   

Quite so. And I don't think that veg oil, as we are growing it today, is anywhere near a renewable fuel. Much of it is genetically modified, raping the 3rd world's poorer communities of their land and lives, it is all grown with the aid of petro-chemicals which are decimating the soil, bird-life, insect-life and almost everything else which plants require to grow and vast amounts of diesel fuel are used in its sowing, growing, harvesting, transportation and storage.

Those running a car on new oil have minimal cost savings - only when it is free or nearly free (ie used and a waste product) does it make any real sense.
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2012, 11:17:48 PM »

Codes for VE tdi blocks, not PD are

AAZ, AHU, ALH, AFN - 90hp, 90hp, 90hp, 110hp

All double pop injectors, AFN have larger injectors and a different ECU.

All have a waste gate turbo, will last a long long time so long as you do oil change at 8,000 - 10,000.

AAZ and AHU can be chipped to 115HP under stage 1 tune, £300 from quantum tuning, AFN ro 130hp

Single mass fly wheel, seek Mk4 VW platform as the gear box is stronger.

VE cam belts need to be done at 60,000 or 4 years, what ever comes first.

Cracking engine once chipped, Ok engine when not chipped.

Should run well on WVO - SVO with twin tank and heated supply, bio derv no worries.

probably one of the best VW engines ever made in terms of power to durability. 250,000miles is nothing for these engines.

these engines can get 50mpg all day long and the AFN driven in a normal manner should see 60mpg.  If your not getting this, change up earlier, 1,800 - 2,000RPM and accelerate fast but progressivly through the gears as this improves damn.

refurbed injector set cost £200 for four.  PD injectors are several hunderad each.

I dont advicate virgin oils for automative use, waste is the only way as you are buring food!

Cheers

Jon
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 11:20:02 PM by Other-Power » Logged

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danny stardust
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2012, 09:52:33 AM »

^^^ Hi Jon, I think you mean 1Z instead of AAZ. The 1Z is very similar to the AHU being DI (direct injection) and having a full electronic ECU control.

Where as the AAZ is a slightly earlier turbo IDI engine (in-direct injection) with a mechanical Bosch injection pump / throttle cable. Not electronic ECU control, although the late engines do have an emission reduction control system with a few leccy gubbins involved.

I have heard the IDI engines by design are more suited to veg oil (burn rate or something), however they need glow plugs to start them and the fact the engines are generally older means finding a decent one is difficult. Later DI engines start without glow plugs and are now far more common to source in decent condition.




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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2012, 11:22:58 AM »

Indirect injection diesels, when the fuel is squirted into a pre-combustion chamber before reaching the main cylinder, is usually better suited to high proportions of veg oil because there is less danger of unburnt fuel accumulating which then can run down the sides of the pistons, gumming rings and contaminating sump oil (which can then polymerise). However the VW direct injection diesels are better suited than most since the pistons have a bowl in the top of the piston which can catch unburnt fuel and subsequently burn it.

The computer control means better starting and cold running, however there is still a danger of unburnt fuel causing problems if the engine is left idling for long periods or there are lots of very short journeys. The higher output engines squirt in more fuel and will be working less hard at any given time - so potentially these are more at risk of having problems. I've run a 90hp Tdi Golf and 140hp (old 5 cylinder) Audi on high %s year round without any problems, but I don't live in suburbia and my car is regularly worked hard.

Later VW Tdi engines (4 cylinder ones with 100hp, 115hp, 130hp - introduced from about 2000 on) are PD or common rail units with quite different operating fuel injection regimes and are well known to be much less tough than their predecesors, even running on forecourt diesel. Additionally all the components cost many times more than those for the older Tdis, as mentioned above.

Twin-tanking (starting and stopping the engine on diesel) creates complication but ensures there is minimum stress on the injection equipment. A few non VW DI engines as well as some VW PDs and common rail ones have been known to survive with this system if there is a plate heat exchanger in the fuel line.

Any engine running on veg oil must have its injectors working correctly and the pump timing accurately set, or slightly advanced to cope with the longer burn of veg oil.
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hughie
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Hughie


« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 06:36:13 PM »


.. ooh errrrr ! That'll teach me to open my mouth!

Whatever, it works and we've had zero problems.
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Cheers .. Hughie

A bit of solar & pv at the moment.
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