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Author Topic: Major changes to G83 rules for solar PV installations needing advance permission  (Read 67870 times)
M
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« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2012, 11:40:50 AM »


The expansion of PV is actually very controlled in most aspects other than individual one off sub 16amp installations

''individual one off sub 16amp installations'' - so that'll be those being fitted to tens of thousands of homes across the country then

these proposals, specifically the silly postcode element to which you appear to be most upset by has been publicly available for a good time, saying you were too busy to respond to it (busy cramming in as many installs as possible ?) isn't going to win you any sympathy here

the golden goose that once was PV installation is really rather poorly

Hang on a minute there, the government are telling us to fit renewables to save the planet, then with their other face, ensuring that it's next to impossible. They want 20GW of PV, but the DNO's are moaning after 1.1GW. Why should blame fall on consumers and installers, we (and they) are only playing the game, we don't get to write the rules.

As for keeping up with things, I fell foul of a change/clarification in the guidance issued by OFGEM (to REC's) dated 26/7/12, with effect from 26/7/12 during my install 26th & 27th July. I'd previously sought verbal and written advice here, from my REC and from the EST. My mistake was to have not been properly aware!!!!

Mart.

Edit: PS Gavin, thanks for all of your help, support, guidance and patience on the vast number of questions (many silly) that I've sought help with. M.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 11:42:32 AM by M » Logged

Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
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« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2012, 01:26:31 PM »

Gavin for PM  genuflect genuflect genuflect
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« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2012, 08:20:11 PM »

Quote
1) The postcodes of any of the premises where a SSEG installation is planned by the same organisation are the same when the last two letters are ignored…ie AB1 2xx where xx could be any pair of letters or where x could be any letter.

Now we are back kin my little world of expertese here. They are describing a "Postcode Sector". For those not familiar - have a look here: http://www.geoplan.com/data/pdfs/Basic%20Postcode%20Sector%20Boundaries.pdf

A somewhat obscure tool that just happens to make visible Postcode Sectors in Scotland is here: http://crtb.sedsh.gov.uk/landreformp/viewer.htm
Tip - turn on the Postcode sectors and zoom to closer tan 1:200 000 - the Sectors are shown with a blue outline.

My postcode Sector of IV6 7(xx) contains the whole of the village of Muir Of Ord, and much of the countryside for 20 miles one way - and 10 miles the other.................................
On the Urban side - Inverness is covered by only 5 Sectors.....

Looks like someone has come up with a definition that hasn't been checked with the GIS team - postal geography is often really unsuitable for use for anything other than delivering letters (check with all those lost/misplaced Sat Nav users using Postcode Centres).




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« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2012, 08:37:09 AM »

http://www.renewablesinternational.net/german-government-reaches-pv-agreement/150/510/39227/   Aim to fit 52GW pv capacity egual to summer demand !
How come the Germans can always do these things and we cannot?

The article refers to a EU submission by countries giving their pv aims - i wonder what the UKs was ?

Ken
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M
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« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2012, 09:39:12 AM »

Interesting article, but I don't understand the last para:

The highest rate – 18.92 cents for small rooftop arrays – is now roughly 25 percent below the average retail power rate in Germany of around 24 cents, putting Germany far beyond grid parity as soon as these rates take effect. The agreement is expected be further discussed in the Bundestag this week, where no opposition is expected.

I think I get that the tariff would be less than retail price, but I can't get my head around the grid parity bit (if there is still a subsidy)?

Imagine if you suggested those levels of PV to our grid, which would meltdown first, the grid or those in charge!

Mart.
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GavinA
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« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2012, 01:47:20 PM »

the subsidy is needed because the parity is with the retail price, rather than the wholesale price.

I'm not entirely clear that this would actually be parity, but it's definitely getting to being in that region, with the retail price at least.
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Ian-LS
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« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2012, 04:19:08 PM »

Can this be made a sticky? Its fallen off the first page and is vitally important that all installers are aware of this potentially massive change to the G83 rules
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« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2012, 03:26:56 PM »

bump
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 05:12:06 PM by Ted » Logged
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« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2012, 05:13:09 PM »

Made sticky.
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GavinA
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« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2012, 12:14:36 AM »

Those of us who responded have now had a reply, and it seems Ofgem have been in discussions with the DNOs to come up with a better proposal, which they want to discuss with us in a couple of weeks time.

Thanks to all those who responded, hopefully we'll get a more workable solution out of this.
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« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2013, 11:08:13 PM »

Can anyone bring this up to date, I lost track of it all (new baby) and am out of the loop so to speak.

Cheers

Jon
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« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2013, 12:05:38 AM »

will do when I get a minute.

essentially though Ofgem and the DNO's agreed some changes that mean the geographic rule is only supposed to apply where installations can reasonably be expected to be potentially on the same transformer, and there is now a time limit for companies to needing to apply for permission for systems installed in the same close geographic area.

Constructive engagement was had, and I think it helped that all the installers who responded were pretty much saying the same thing.
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« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2014, 04:33:42 AM »

In my small way, I might have contributed to the changes in the regulations, but before I tell my story, can I ask for clarification as to what happens at the local transformer, as its "downstream" voltage rises?

My home is on a TT system (two overhead wires one power and the other an earth return, regularly run down to earth by a naked cable stapled to its wooden pole).
My nearest transformer is a grey tank up a pole the other side of a field. It is supplied underground by a thick insulated cable that climbs up the pole.
Out of the top of the transformer comes three thinner cables. These climb down the pole and one of them passes under "my" lane to re-climb another pole and then cross the field to supply just two properties: me and my immediate neighbour.

This transformer replaced a smaller simpler one. The old original had two overhead wires in (separated horizontally) and two wires narrowly separated vertically as output.  Presumably the "new" 12 year old transformer is splitting out 3 phase, as well as stepping down the voltage to a nominal 230 volts [More of this later].

Back in 2010/11, some 18 months before I got my PV panels, I picked up on a rumour circulating on on the web, that roof top power "generation could not get back through the transformer" and I think I understand the concept of "islanding", where a group of  inverters compete, in raising the voltage with each other, until the over voltage starts making them drop out.
So, when my 3.6 kWp inverter produces more power that both I and my neighbour can consume, where does it go ?

I have asked this question twice before and not got any realistic reply - perhaps the Navitron community can sort out my confusion ?  
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 04:41:53 AM by JohnP2014 » Logged
marshman
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« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2014, 07:42:28 AM »

Simple - it goes back through the transformer. They work both ways - maybe not quite so efficiently - but they do work. I suspect if there is a large enough "group" of inverters on a big enough section of the grid then the scenario of the inverters keeping going when the grid connection disappears may occur if there is enough local load. But in reality unlikely for the conditions to be exactly right. Even if it does and the inverters trip out due to high grid volts I don't really see the problem. In the "sticks" where I am there is my 3.15kW system and the farmers 36kW system both feeding to the grid through a single small transformer sitting on a pole. After they adjusted the tappings (to reduce the voltage a bit) there have been no problems here.

Roger
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« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2014, 08:20:08 AM »

Grid tie inverters are specifically designed to prevent islanding and this includes the situation where one inverter might see the output only from one or more other inverters rather than the grid itself.  There are several ways of doing this, and most are described in some detail here: http://apache.solarch.ch/pdfinter/solar/pdf/PVPSTask509.pdf
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