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Author Topic: Hydometers  (Read 8828 times)
camillitech
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2012, 12:26:53 PM »

Hi Ali,

at this time of year will Mr Lister not be running daily, or at least every other day, I'd be thinking along the lines of extracting heat from him into your battery box. Either via the jacket if he's water cooled or by a heat exchanger if he's air cooled. A well insulated box should keep warm for days with a little reclaimed heat.

Good luck, Paul
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stephendv
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2012, 12:28:55 PM »

How about heat recovery from the generator?  Simplest would be to make the exhaust longer and route it through the battery box, being careful not to create too much backpressure.  Or hook into the generators cooling system and route water pipes with small pump through the battery box.
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Iain
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2012, 02:12:53 PM »

Hi Alba

Quote
I need to warm it up a bit for the winter, -40c is not uncommon  freeze I know LEDs get hot, well the heatsink on my headlamps does, so I was thinking of 5w of LED but would a 5w strip of LEDs be better than a single 5w bulb. Not sure if the strip with approx 20 small bulbs will produce the same heat a the single one.
Any ideas, suggestions or than moving to warmer climes ?

On board a ship whilst down the South Atlantic we had problems with the Sea Boat battery and the cold. The battery was under a cover in an open sea boat. The temperature played havoc with the battery. We overcame the problem by keeping the battery on a 0.5A trickle charge. This obviously kept the battery fully topped up and the charge also kept the battery temp up a bit.

With your battery in an insulated box would it be worth having the battery on a permanent trickle charge and see if that works. Use the elec to the battery instead of a heat pad. Worth a try, and also ensures the battery is always fully charged.

Iain
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Alba
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2012, 04:03:48 PM »

Mr Lister is in his own shed 20 mts from where inverter, batts are. He is running 5hrs in the morning ATM as I'm still running long absorbs. Could easily run a small fan heater whilst Mr Lister is running but would prefer to find something that could heat 24/7 at low levels just to keep things more consistant. I have been thinking about a heat exchanger on the exhaust (air cooled Listy) to heat water for the dogs but not sure if it's worth running pipes over to the batt shed.

Don't think a constant trickle charge will suffice either as the bank is cycled daily

Back to LED subject.... I have just returned from the lighting shop and I can say that LEDs are bloody hot behind the bulb, my 3w headlamp (not headlight) has a heatsink at the back and gets quite hot so I'm right that domestic bulbs are the same. If you look at a LED spot bulb, you see ridges at the back to dissapate the heat. So might just rig one up to see what happens. Picked up a digital inside/outside thermometer from same shop. I'll do it in reverse and stick the wire end in the batt box and mount the thermometer above the box. That way I can check ambient temp /batt box temp without lifting the lid  Cool Cool

Thanks again guys

Ali
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stephendv
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2012, 04:09:21 PM »

Don't understand the attraction of LEDs for this- they're designed to do the exact opposite of what you want!  You're looking for heat not light, but LEDs are one of the most efficient ways of getting light instead of heat.  Even incandescent bulbs would be a much better choice, but they also waste energy as light.  A simple bar heater should do the trick no?
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A.L.
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2012, 05:06:40 PM »

hello again

Don't understand the attraction of LEDs for this- they're designed to do the exact opposite of what you want!  You're looking for heat not light, but LEDs are one of the most efficient ways of getting light instead of heat.  Even incandescent bulbs would be a much better choice, but they also waste energy as light.  A simple bar heater should do the trick no?


- at least inside a closed opaque box the light turns back into heat, so no difference - just unnecessary  wackoold
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Alba
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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2012, 05:19:40 PM »

Stephen, what do you mean by a bar heater ? What's the output ?

Maybe read this and you might understand why LED bulbs might just work to keep a battery box warm enough through winter  ::)Were not looking for +25c but if it stayed above freezing that would speed up the recharging process. Cold can actually prolong battery life...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_management_of_high-power_LEDs

Ali
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stephendv
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2012, 05:28:30 PM »

Ali,

I was thinking that one of these should work well: http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=bar+heater&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=6834231009&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10612533141025698369&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&ref=pd_sl_7k61mdtiff_e

I realise that you _can_ use LEDs to create heat, but it's a bit like buying a car in order to charge a mobile phone  Wink
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Gambot
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2012, 05:54:05 PM »

Back to LED subject.... I have just returned from the lighting shop and I can say that LEDs are bloody hot behind the bulb, my 3w headlamp (not headlight) has a heatsink at the back and gets quite hot so I'm right that domestic bulbs are the same. If you look at a LED spot bulb, you see ridges at the back to dissapate the heat. So might just rig one up to see what happens. Picked up a digital inside/outside thermometer from same shop. I'll do it in reverse and stick the wire end in the batt box and mount the thermometer above the box. That way I can check ambient temp /batt box temp without lifting the lid  Cool Cool

Ali,
You should give up on the idea of LEDs and take note of the experts on this forum who have given time to help and advise you.  bike
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 06:31:31 PM by Gambot » Logged

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Alba
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« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2012, 06:02:00 PM »

I see there is a 45w one but no thermostat. I'm worried, if they are sold for bathrooms etc, that it's too much for a 2m x 60cm x 65cm insulated box. Could have it on a timer i suppose.
Havn't ruled out some sort of low watt heat pad under the batts.

Thanks

Ali

Gambot I may be new to this forum but I have been using LED technology for going on 9yrs now, so I have some understanding of the science.
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Gambot
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« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2012, 06:37:38 PM »

Gambot I may be new to this forum but I have been using LED technology for going on 9yrs now, so I have some understanding of the science.

Ali,
You are new to the technology then, and if you understood the quantum physics of semiconductors and valency levels, then you would not be asking such questions in the first place.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 06:39:43 PM by Gambot » Logged

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Iain
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« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2012, 07:12:49 PM »

Hi Alba
Quote
Don't think a constant trickle charge will suffice either as the bank is cycled daily

Sorry, misread the post!!!. I thought you were just on about a starter battery.
Iain
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A.L.
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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2012, 07:31:21 PM »


given the box dimensions and insulation you are going to need about 5W/C temperature difference without considering the ventilation loss
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marcus
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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2012, 07:37:01 PM »

Alba, I'm sure you understand LED technology, but what the folks here are saying is that an LED lamp is an expensive component for heating a battery box.

A 5W LED will add 5W of heat to your battery box; but a 5W incandesent lamp will provide the same heat and cost less to buy. Even better a 5W resistor will provide the same heat and will be very cheap, stable and can be chosen to run on any voltage source and provide the power you want using: Power=Volts^2/Ohms.

I think you are confusing us by wanting to use an expensive LED rather than a cheap resistor to provide heat.

marcus
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Alba
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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2012, 05:33:59 AM »

Thanks for all the helpful advice guys. I'm not / never have been dead set on LED's for heating the box. I've just read that a lot of people use an incandesent bulb and wondered if a lower consumption LED would do the same job. Thanks for the resistor advice. I'll look into that but I would have to buy one as I don't trust myself to construct and place it next to my surrettes  sh*tfan
Just trying to find a way, without drawing too many AH from the batts, to warm them up a bit  surrender surrender

Ali 
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