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Author Topic: Wood burner feeding cylinder on same floor with door in the way  (Read 21189 times)
Billy
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2012, 10:44:45 AM »

If using a sealed system then you only need to be able to bleed air off at the high point, no need for the o/flow.  Just remember to put the prv near as poss to the stove and no valves in between for you to forget to open.  Preferably no valves at all to be on the safe side.   sh*tfan

If you have done the solar then this should not be a problem.  Just don't size the boiler too big and have a heat dump rad for when the tank is hot.  My 2kw boiler has plenty more than 2kw to heat to if it has to.

My boiler connections were 1" and I went up to 1 1/4" for the flow and return.  I have a 28mm gravity coil in the tank.

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Greenbeast
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2012, 10:47:18 AM »

thanks, i think this might be the way forward then.


One thing i never understood regarding heat leak radiators, do they steal heat all the time? if so that seems inefficient for heating the hot water, even if it is safe i guess
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Greenbeast
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2012, 12:16:07 PM »

Can't seem to do much other reading on this subject because of course when i type pressurised and wood burner into google all you get are people bleating on about pressurised cylinders
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rogeriko
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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2012, 01:14:46 PM »

There is nothing wrong with pressurized cylinders, only in UK do you have this old quirky way of doing things. America, Europe all use pressurized systems its just so easy. My house for example, although probably not a very good one, has a woodburner feeding 2, 200 litre tanks and solar flat panels all plumbed directly to the tanks, no coils, nothing, the same water circulates around everywhere and out the hot tap. All running at 3 bar. It has now been working for 5 years without a problem and have yet to see brown water. There should be a pressure rating on your tank probably 10 bar thats what most seem to be. A simple 3 bar pressure release valve and an expansion tank is all you need in case you boil the water. I also have a temp guage on the kitchen wall so I can tell how hot the tank is.
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Greenbeast
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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 01:30:22 PM »

I just want to clarify thought that in my case i am only pressurising the boiler coil/circuit?
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Billy
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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2012, 08:57:55 PM »

For me I am pressuring the coil as it is part of the sealed central heating system.  I am also pressurising the cylinder as I run a 2 bar water pump which supplies the hot and cold water.  But the two systems are not on the same circuits.

Depends on what system you will use but you will only be pressurising the coil in the cylinder if you run a sealed indirect system from the stove.

If you open this link it will give you a schematic and may be of some use.

http://www.oilstoves.co.uk/webdocs/technical/Bubble/Bubble_Marine_Preamble.pdf

This one is a manual for installing a boiler stove and give schematics and volumes for expansion tanks and all sorts.

http://www.oilstoves.co.uk/webdocs/technical/Aarrow/AARROW_Stratford_TF_TI_.pdf

My feed to the tank is taken from the top of the flow pipe.  When the tank is up to temperature the water tends to then carry on to the 2kw heat sink rad.  This also takes the chill off the bedroom but never reaches capacity unless the fire is melting us and the tank is full.  Then again I don't want too much heat there anyway.

I dare say none of this follows the rules so beware what you are getting up to.

Hope it's useful.


« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 09:26:18 PM by Billy » Logged
Greenbeast
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2012, 04:50:55 PM »

Thanks billy
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desperate
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2012, 06:23:23 PM »

You really really really need a bit more than just a 3 bar pressure relief valve and expansion tank to keep things safe. You also need a temperature and pressure relief valve as well as a pressure relief valve, if you start boiling a tank full of water at 3 bar you will be up at 140 degrees c or so and the release of latent heat will be truly collosal, much much more than a simple pressure relief valve will cope with. You WILL end up with an explosion, DO NOT DO IT PLEASE

DESP
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Greenbeast
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2012, 07:33:30 PM »

I'm not pressurising the cylinder, just the boiler coil then then surely as the others say it's no different from a solar coil under stagnation conditions?
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desperate
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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2012, 07:54:42 PM »

Ah ok, I am not sure about the implications of that, I read a comment about pressurised cylinders and got the wrong end of the stick. Sorry.
I guess it is similar to a solar coil under stagnation, although the energy input would be quite a bit higher from a WBS, and whereas a solar panel would loose more and more heat as it,s temperature rises, the same may not be true for a WBS as it is designed to run at a much higher temperature. Are you proposing to run a pressurised loop to get over the lack of room for a header tank or is there another reason?

Sorry Mr GB, I will read the whole thread and do my homework next time  whistlie

Desp
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Greenbeast
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2012, 08:12:36 PM »

hehe i'll let you off. i'm on new ground here myself so i'm keen for wise opinions

Yes essentially if i run my flow pipe above the door (that is in the way) i won't have clearance for a an overflow pipe (only a few inches before the ceiling)
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Billy
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« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2012, 12:23:56 AM »

I originally put iso valves on the wbs.  Bad move.  Even I forgot once, why heat the (off) wbs when the central heating boiler is on?   sh*tfan  I did upgrade the 1/2" outlet prv to a 3/4".  As long as you don't have a massive boiler output and do have somewhere for it to go then all is fine.  It does require input from the user and you do have to know what you are doing or an understanding, given that, I have domestic hot water, rads to the whole horizontal gravity system.  Long horizontal runs are not a problem (and they even run downhill, but not below the return to the boiler), it just takes a bit longer to get things going and thus more user input.  Ie, lower boiler inputs and steady fires until things are running.  Design the system so it works and it will.

To qualify, horizontal runs should have 25mm rise per metre, I used 50mm in case I sat on the mud badly.  The gravity/thermosyphon takes place over the height of the return and feed of the boiler.  The feed will not go below the return.   The feed can go high and the return can go low, otherwise, "simples". Low fires to get going and or low boiler outputs.  Bigger pipe the better but even 15mm will work, given time.  I say this because the pump failed but the rads got warm (it took much longer) on another barge.

You can shift btus faster with vertical lifts, say to an upstairs tank and top fed rads.  This is the classic thermosyphon setup with the downstairs rads being bigger to account for the lower return temps.  The old timers did a lot with gravity and had it down to a tee.  Whatever that means?

Newark did my cylinder and it is rated for marine use.  Ie being sloshed about and rated for 6 bar with a prv at 3 bar.  I don't know what land ones are speced at.  Which is why I say "it's your life", be careful.   Grin Grin Grin  Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die!

« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 12:36:22 AM by Billy » Logged
Greenbeast
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« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2012, 04:19:20 PM »

thanks billy!

The cylinder isn't so important if i'm not pressurising it? i can use a standard overflow for the dhw.

I guess i could pump it, as long as it can gravity to the heat leak rad when power is down?
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Billy
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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2012, 05:12:34 PM »

Any decent cylinder will do if only pressurising the coils.  Re pumps, I was talking about how you would get the hot water out of the cylinder to put in your sinks etc?  I have underfloor cold water tanks so I need a pump to feed the system.  In the old house I had tanks in the loft feeding the cylinder

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Greenbeast
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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2012, 05:26:25 PM »

re: tanks, yeah that's what i thought

re: pumping, yeah i had a totally separate thought about pumping earlier today rather than following on from your comments
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