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Author Topic: Windoze - how do people put up with it?  (Read 62937 times)
martin
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« on: August 20, 2013, 12:18:54 AM »

Aaaaaargh! Having had to replace my desktop machine, I added a small hard drive with an install of Windoze 7 (just for photo manipulation programmes) as well as the main install of Linux Mint on the big hard drive. The Linux install is ridiculously easy - just decide on what country you're in, give the machine a name and a password, and it "just does it" - perfect sensing and implementation of monitor and sound, internet connection identified and connected to - bingo, working machine! On the other hand, the Windoze install grinds slowly, and eventually comes to life - display all wonked at a wildly wrong size, resolutely refuses to connect to net... After simply ages clicking about with the mainboard driver disk, it eventually condescends to load drivers for the screen and net connection, and involving umpteen reboots. Now every time I dare decide to shut it down, it demands I leave it to "install updates" - I've just sat here like a bloody lemon while it took 15 minutes to install 7 updates............ fume
How do people put up with it? In comparison to my beloved Mint, it's slow, clonky, unintuitive, and bloody annoying in all respects - I could go off and prepare a 7 course meal while it boots up or closes down............ fume

And I've downloaded and installed a couple of programmes - both heavily loaded with "toolbars" and their own bloody useless search engines.......awful, awful, awful.....in Mint, you just click "install", insert password, it downloads and installs, no faffing, no cr*p extra software or toolbars..........
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 12:25:33 AM by martin » Logged

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billt
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 09:06:59 AM »

Oddly enough, I find that Windows has been reliable and straight forward to install since W2000. I tell it not to install updates automatically, so updates are only installed at my convenience and if I think they are needed. Crashes are almost always hardware related, a problem to which Unices (including OSX) aren't immune.

To judge an OS by the install procedure is perverse, to say the least. Having tried Linux on many, many occasions it used to be virtually impossible to install unless you were a master of the command line. It seems to be good now, but that's very recent.

These OS rants are pretty silly. The 3 main OSs are pretty similar in functionality and reliability now so they just expose irrational biases of the ranter.
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martin
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 09:37:09 AM »

"irrational biases of the ranter"
Point by point - loading an o/s isn't something you do every day, BUT as I said, Linux Mint is a true doddle to install - insert disc, Mint loads into memory (no input necessary at all) - it sniffs out all the appropriate settings for monitor, sound and net connection and "just does it" - you can then "play" for as long as you like to try it out, or hit the "install" button - pop in the country you're in, choose other than the default keyboard if you wish, give the computer a name and password, then sit back while it installs - within a few minutes you have a fully configured install (not a whiff of command line), Windoze in comparison took over 2 hours of faffing and frustration (mostly down to needing the drivers from the mainboard disk) and the machine being up and down like the proverbial tart's drawers....... whistlie

Then we have the overall slowness of Windoze - it's a fair comparison, it's using the same machine - I haven't put a stopwatch on it, but Windoze takes 2-3 times as long to fire up, and often a quarter of an hour or more to shut down (thanks to bally updates) - Linux has a far more sensible system, when you fire it up, a little tell-tale tells you there's updates available, click on it, bung in your password and "it just does it", quietly and in the background - at the end of the session, just "shutdown", and it does.........

Then having spent some years away from Windoze, you relearn the delights of crashes (absolutely unknown in Mint) -not just a little crash, but full-blown "refuse to answer to ctrl-alt-del" freezes......(and it's all sooooooo slow too!)

Then there's the software thing - you realise Windoze is vulnerable to viruses etc, so you download the "old favourites" (AVG and Zone Alarm) to keep it protected, but Zone Alarm refuses to install unless you install their bally toolbar and search engine, so you search around and end up with "Comodo" that fires up garish "allow/not allow" screen every time you go near a key..........

So as I said in the title, how do people put up with such a measurably awful operating system? (Comments about command lines are obviously coming from hopelessly outdated views of linux)
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rt29781
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 10:34:40 AM »

I am with Martin on this Windows, is a shambles.  XP was the last OS from Windows that I used extensively and I still have a machine running it.  It slows down over time to become almost un-useable.  Linux is so portable so much so that I took a hard drive out of my Dell and put it into a mac and hey presto it worked.  Try doing that with Windows.  Windows Vista was installed on the last Dell I bought and that was truly an epic disaster of an OS which prompted my total conversion to Linux.  I have to say the Mac OS is good but far too controlling for my needs.

I still use Ubuntu and have got used to the new desktop (12.04).
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clivejo
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 11:22:30 AM »

+1 in agreement with Martin

My mum recently got a Windows 8 laptop, what a complete pile of dog poo!!  sh*tfan 

Every time she uses it, it needs to update something or other.  She only really uses it for online banking (which seems that Java is constantly out of date) and emails which use that stupid Outlook design were you have to preview an email to delete it!!  No wonder viruses are rife on Windows!!  The day we got it and connected to the internet it downloaded 3Gb of data, without asking or notifying anyone.  This resulted in her going over her 15Gb monthly limit and a 90 euro bill !!   I intend to format it and install something more stable and secure.
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martin
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 12:36:23 PM »

My advice would be to download the latest edition of Linux Mint, burn it onto a DVD, then restart the computer - just follow the onscreen prompts to partition the hard drive, and you can end up with your old Windoze install (just in case), and a nice fresh install of Mint alongside it.........the only "hard part" is to ensure the laptop boots off the dvd, if in doubt ask a geeky friend!
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clivejo
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 01:38:46 PM »

If it was my laptop I would have formatted it as soon as I got it.  I did this with my current laptop and put Ubuntu on it. I then contacted Microsoft to get my money back!  LOL like that will ever happen!!   hysteria

They referred me back to the PC manufacturer, who in turn passed the buck back to M$. Microsoft have been very cunning and clever in bundling their bull poo products on new PC's

Don't NEED it? Don't WANT it? Maybe PPI Windows was mis-sold !  Call MONEY-GRABBING SCUMBAG SOLICITORS GROUP today!  <insert freephone number and cheery jingle here>
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langstroth3
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 01:48:21 PM »

Hmm. Won't touch Windows 8, having used it on demo machines and just couldn't get on with it, may be given time.... Windows 7 on home and work PC I find quite usable, it's remained stable and can't remember when it last crashed....It's possible to install the likes of AVG without search bars etc, you just have to be careful to uncheck some of the default install options.

The children have a Mac for homework etc - simply just works, never ever crashes, I've never had to "mother it" in any way. It was expensive though and a little constraining sometimes. Can see the appeal. It's meant I'm no longer getting IT support calls from the family.

Old low spec laptop and an eePC I acquired for temperature logging - both running Linux - again just works. Sometimes (increasingly rarely to be fair) I find you "drop off the cliff" and have to resort to command line.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 01:50:18 PM by langstroth3 » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 03:31:48 PM »

It is one of those funny things I know you are right, but there is a sense of inertia. I use windows 7 it is OK but not much more than that, however it is all the the little open source or is it freeware programmes that I have accumulated over the years that make me reluctant to change.  I rather suspect that most will be available as Linux version or good alternatives available but it is the FAFF of finding them that puts me off.
However I guess one day M$ will p me off to such an extent that I will change, they came mighty close by constantly telling me my ligitimate softwear wasn't', that took a really stroppy email to sort out.  They are in last chance saloon, so expect posts begging for help on line install.
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clivejo
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 04:14:58 PM »

They are in last chance saloon, so expect posts begging for help on line install.

Most distributions (distro) have whats called a Live Boot CD or DVD.  You just pop this in the drive and boot from it.  It allows you to demo the distro before installing it permanently on your hard drive.  If your hardware works with the demo, then it will work on the full install (just quicker).  I also use the Live CD's to rescue/repair computers as I can get access to the disk and fix problems so much easier, even ones with Windows installed!
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dhaslam
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 05:03:19 PM »

One of the strange things about Microsoft is that  they have very poor support for professional products.     I used to use NT server, the last version I used was version 4,  and it gave a lot of strange problems, particularly losing files that had  a particular pattern of  file name.   After registering I received a letter basically saying that professional products had no warranty other than refund  and there was no support.   The strange thing was that  I recognized the name of the person who signed the letter  because  I was talking to him over a pint the evening before.   That was about fifteen years ago, not surprisingly I have used  Linux based servers since.         
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Justme
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 08:11:00 PM »

My advice would be to download the latest edition of Linux Mint,

I was tempted to do that very thing.

Trouble is when you get to the mint site there seems to be literally dozens of different versions with different desktops.

After a quick look round it seems that the Mint 15 Olivia is the latest but which desktop do I choose out of:

Cinnamon
Mate
KDE
or
Xfce?
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todthedog
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 08:22:43 PM »

Same as you Justme , a tad confusing.
I suppose  will go through the progs I use most and see what alternatives are available.
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clivejo
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 08:45:25 PM »

Cinnamon is probably what you would be most comfortable with.  Its basically like the old Start Menu where you find all your programs/apps.

There are different schools of thought on how the interface (how you interact with your computer) should act, respond and feel.  The choices are just different types.  A lot of people didnít like the interface supplied with Ubuntu (the interface is called Unity).  But I soldiered on and now I actually quite like unity, however a lot of people left Ubuntu over this issue!  (for example martin!)

It clear that Unity is starting to gear up towards touch screens and voice control.  The HUD (Heads up display) is a time saver and makes multi tasking and task switching very easy.  I can switch about and control everything from the keyboard. Tap the Alt key, type Nav and arrow down to Navitron and it takes me here, very simple!
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martin
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 10:49:16 PM »

Go with Cinnamon - as Clivejo says it's nice and straightforward (you can always change it at a later date)
Here's my quick "alternative programmes guide" - Word and powerpoint etc - Libre Office, for mail use Thunderbird, the net either Firefox or Chromium, for torrents there's a good built in one, but I prefer Qbittorrent (available from the software centre, couple of clicks job), digital imaging Digikam (software centre), video editing Openshot, again there's a good built-in music centre, but I prefer "Amarok"........
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