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Author Topic: Fridge Generator  (Read 10688 times)
DaS Energy
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« on: September 22, 2013, 05:54:47 PM »

All thermal turbine domestic or commercial work by heat. That which is heated supplies the force to the turbine.
The good turbine setup condenses its drive liquid after it leaves the turbine.
Steam is one example of this. and R744 (CO2) is another.
The ideal turbine uses a drive fluid that requires least heat for maximum energy output.
Steam at +100*C has 14.2 PSI energy output, at +550*C it has 2,485 PSI energy output. It condenses at +100*C.
CO2 at -40*C has 14.2 PSI energy output, at +50*C it has 2,840 PSI energy output. It condenses at +32*C.  
CO2 at +100*C has 142,000 PSI energy output. It condenses at +32*C.

DaS CO2 turbine is in fact a fridge! It may be put to use domestically or commercially.  
Stainless Steel casing handles all forces from 14.2 PSI to 142,000 PSI.
350 megawatt turbine requires 2,485 PSI. (Steam +600*C, CO2 +50*C)
Except for compressor etching on turbine shaft remainder home made.



* Freezer Fridge.png (18.94 KB, 1018x580 - viewed 531 times.)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 05:57:25 PM by DaS Energy » Logged
martin
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2013, 06:10:27 PM »

I'm not convinced it'll work properly without the mirrors! (No need to align them, just attach some in an artistically pleasing arrangement) Smiley
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Unpaid volunteer administrator and moderator (not employed by Navitron) - Views expressed are my own - curmudgeonly babyboomer! - http://www.farmco.co.uk
DaS Energy
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2013, 06:20:37 PM »


Hope you don't need get a cold beer out of the fridge, especially one that has a compressor.
Love to know how you make your beer cold by aligning mirrors.  Wink
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Philip R
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2013, 10:06:35 PM »

DaS.

You say that most of the bits are home made.

Do you have access to alloy steel forgings to form the pressure vessel for this wonderful device? 142,000 PSI, that is high. sh*tfan Is the device compliant with the pressure systems regulations?

More to the point, do you have a gantry crane and the lifting equipment capable of lifting up a device that can produce 350MW.
Philip R
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DaS Energy
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 03:01:12 AM »

Hello Philip R,

I have neither access, and none of the things you mentioned!

DaS Energy
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pdf27
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 09:32:12 AM »

What's unique about your device that hasn't already been done endless times over by the other absorption/adsorption refrigerators out there? Beyond needing a whacking great big/heavy pressure vessel when most of them are quite happy with water/ammonia at low pressure to get exactly the same effect.
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DaS Energy
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 09:59:22 AM »

Hello pdf27,

A generator such as our has never been done before, its not an absorption/adsorption fridge, nor does it have a whacking great big/heavy pressure vessel.  However it be a fridge but not like the fridge as now known. Fridges make things cold not generate any amount of electricity.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:07:22 AM by DaS Energy » Logged
Greenbeast
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2013, 10:07:37 AM »

Hello pdf27,

A generator such as our has never been done before, its not an absorption/adsorption fridge, nor does it have  whacking great big/heavy pressure vessel.  However it will make things cold if thermocline is engaged in the boiler.



how can a vessel withstand 142,000psi and not be big/heavy?

do you know something the laws of physics don't?
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DaS Energy
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2013, 10:12:45 AM »

Hello Greenbeast,

Stainless Steel! 

I know a some of the laws of physics are wrong, and many still blindly follow them!
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pdf27
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2013, 10:27:33 AM »

Hello pdf27,

A generator such as our has never been done before, its not an absorption/adsorption fridge, nor does it have a whacking great big/heavy pressure vessel.  However it be a fridge but not like the fridge as now known. Fridges make things cold not generate any amount of electricity.


You're talking at running to roughly 200 bar. That's a big, heavy pressure vessel - and stainless isn't particularly strong or cheap either. Not new technology, but expensive.
And a fridge is just a heat engine run backwards - which is all you're doing. Conceptually the cycle when in fridge mode is the same as an absorption refrigerator, and in heat engine mode is just like an OTEC plant. These tend to use water/ammonia, which runs happily at much lower pressures and avoids your pressure vessel problems (notably safety - 200 bar pressure vessels are extremely dangerous if they go wrong and have some major inspection/licensing requirements).
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DaS Energy
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2013, 11:03:55 AM »

Hello pdf27,

DaS actually talk of running from 1 bar through to 10,000 bar.  How you turn something quite light to something quite heavy is beyond me not knowing how you went about your built. Perhaps you used line pipe.
A fridge is not a heat pump run backwards never was! The turbine is never in mode of an absorption fridge as it is not one. Absorption fridges do not have a compressor! Water/Ammonia fridges do not run at lower pressures, nor do run anywhere near the low heat of DaS Turbine.
I agree if going to 200 bar you need a good welder. These commonly be found at power stations where pressures of 200 bar are common, and electricity generation of 350 megawatts, a bit more than standard domestic consumption.
Domestic power requires a bar force of 1 (-30*C heat) so not a lot of problems there. No safety or other inspections.  How often do the marine inspectors came round and inspect your diesel engine, each cylinder is generating over 100 bar plus has numbers of cut outs and insertions to make it less structurally sound.



« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 11:11:48 AM by DaS Energy » Logged
renewablejohn
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2013, 11:20:53 AM »

So what is new about this technology. I can remember a thread on Navitron back in 2007 outlining the electratherm kit which seems very similar to what your describing.

http://electratherm.com/products/
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DaS Energy
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2013, 11:34:44 AM »

Hello renewablejohn ,

DaS makes no mention of low temperature water flow. Makes no mention of generating limit of 65KWe (whatever that is). Our turbine has been out there since 2002.

ElectraTherm's Green Machine converts low temperature water flows into fuel-free, emission-free power. The Green Machine output range is up to 65kWe, based on temperatures and flows.
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pdf27
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2013, 11:41:49 AM »

A fridge is not a heat pump run backwards never was!
hysteria Please learn some physics or engineering. There are some quite good ones on here.

I agree if going to 200 bar you need a good welder. These commonly be found at power stations where pressures of 200 bar are common, and electricity generation of 350 megawatts, a bit more than standard domestic consumption.
Yep. Along with statutory inspections, every weld being X-rayed, etc. I occasionally deal with pressure vessels, and this is something that they take very seriouslyl.

Domestic power requires a bar force of 1 (-30*C heat) so not a lot of problems there.
Along with extremely poor efficiency. No way you can get around that - the lower your pressure ratio, the less efficiently you can extract heat.

No safety or other inspections.  How often do the marine inspectors came round and inspect your diesel engine, each cylinder is generating over 100 bar plus has numbers of cut outs and insertions to make it less structurally sound.
Diesel engines have several fail-safe ways for that pressure to escape. A reservoir does not.
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DaS Energy
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2013, 11:58:40 AM »

Hello pdf27,

Quote from: DaS Energy on Today at 11:03:55 AM
A fridge is not a heat pump run backwards never was!
hysteria Please learn some physics or engineering. There are some quite good ones on here.

Good idea to  take some of your own advice but expand your learning past this site.


Quote from: DaS Energy on Today at 11:03:55 AM
dealing with pressures  agree if going to 200 bar you need a good welder. These commonly be found at power stations where pressures of 200 bar are common, and electricity generation of 350 megawatts, a bit more than standard domestic consumption.
Yep. Along with statutory inspections, every weld being X-rayed, etc. I occasionally deal with pressure vessels, and this is something that they take very seriouslyl.

In dealing with 10,00 bar pressure welders and inspectors take that quite seriously too!

Quote from: DaS Energy on Today at 11:03:55 AM
Domestic power requires a bar force of 1 (-30*C heat) so not a lot of problems there.
Along with extremely poor efficiency. No way you can get around that - the lower your pressure ratio, the less efficiently you can extract heat.

Efficiency of the Das Turbine is 80% no matter what the pressure is!


Quote from: DaS Energy on Today at 11:03:55 AM
No safety or other inspections.  How often do the marine inspectors came round and inspect your diesel engine, each cylinder is generating over 100 bar plus has numbers of cut outs and insertions to make it less structurally sound. Diesel engines have several fail-safe ways for that pressure to escape. A reservoir does not.

A Diesel is not fitted with any safety release valve however all pressure reservious are!
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