Shopping List(er)

[spencer1885]

Nearly Paul, but don't forget 1500 rpm generator sets with Petter engines are PH and PJ and these are both suitable for off grid power, but not as common as Listers.

[camillitech]

One of the reasons I'm interested in a straight (?) lister is because I was told that a Lister is simple and even I could learn to take it apart and put it back together again. I have always wanted to learn about engines and this seems like a good way to do this.

Buy a 'good un' V, grease the alternator bearings regular and change the oil every 250h (500 on the external sump engines) and perhaps change the brushes every ten years and you will not need to strip it down. I've owned, maintained and bought dozens of them over the years V and have only ever stripped one down. It was around thirty years old, had a gazillion hours on the clock and no compression, I fitted a second hand set of Land Rover piston rings to it and it's still running ten years on  Twinny, my faithful ST2 7kw had run 12 hours a day for 18 years before I acquired him in 1996 and he's still not had the heads off 

eBay is probably your best bet but don't be hasty.

Good luck, Paul

[biff]

Hi V,
    A kno its a bit late,Maybe too late but I think they are trying to prevent you from buying a piece of "Absolute Perfection".
      I am told by the highest authority that one of these "Absolute Perfections" is going to be used to drive the next chinese Rocket
    carrying our latest satelites into space.Just imagine the RPM that these engines have to work at to push a 2 ,000 ton rocket into space
       and,,!! wait for it,!! all done on one cylinder, .
        Ye old changfa provery verb,,"Why use 4 cylinders when the ar$ is going to fall out of it anyhow,"
      Sooner or later some Lister nut is going to mention Lister CS and then the crack will start,I will have to listen to members telling you that
       They flew spitfires that ran on CS listers and peanut butter.,Dont listen to them.They could be bigger liars than me..
        But,,CS ticks a lot of boxs,and they make a lot of people very happy,some of them run at 650 rpm on veg oil,,h,mmmm
         Like Paul says "Dont be hasty" Good luck
                                                  Biff
         

[camillitech]

Hi V,
    A kno its a bit late,Maybe too late but I think they are trying to prevent you from buying a piece of "Absolute Perfection".
      I am told by the highest authority that one of these "Absolute Perfections" is going to be used to drive the next chinese Rocket
    carrying our latest satelites into space.Just imagine the RPM that these engines have to work at to push a 2 ,000 ton rocket into space
       and,,!! wait for it,!! all done on one cylinder, .
        Ye old changfa provery verb,,"Why use 4 cylinders when the ar$ is going to fall out of it anyhow,"
      Sooner or later some Lister nut is going to mention Lister CS and then the crack will start,I will have to listen to members telling you that
       They flew spitfires that ran on CS listers and peanut butter.,Dont listen to them.They could be bigger liars than me..
        But,,CS ticks a lot of boxs,and they make a lot of people very happy,some of them run at 650 rpm on veg oil,,h,mmmm
         Like Paul says "Dont be hasty" Good luck
                                                  Biff
         

Biff, you're priceless   

[Justme]

A 500 watt pump is more than enough for the internal "mains" pressure water supply. However you seem to be wanting it to also lift the water from the well at the same time.

How deep is the well?
How far from the house & what size is the pipe?

Our first internal pressure pump was 250 watts, coupled to a small pressure vessel (8L) it just about coped. We now have a proper multi stage pump that is rated at 500 watts coupled to a large (100L) expansion vessel. This is fed from a water storage tank that has about 1m of head above the pump. That tank is filled from the borehole via a 1kw pump. The water level in the borehole is 15m down & the pump is at 30m. We are planning on replacing that pump with a 300 watt version. Yes it will have to run for longer to refill the tank but will have less peak draw on the inverter so it coming on automatically wont be such an issue when other large loads are already on like the washer or dishwasher.

[V]

How deep is the well?
How far from the house & what size is the pipe?

The well is 6 metres deep. No house yet, but it's about 30 metres from the barn which is the likely location for storing water. There is pipework in the well from when it was last used 2 years ago. Guess it's about 2 cm bore (from memory)

From your description it sounds like the guys tomorrow are on track. Am I right in assuming your pumps are AC?

[V]

 As for the first link there is no picture so I can't comment, however the clue 'Hawker Siddley' does actually bode well for it means that it could be a 'Hawker Siddley Power Plant' and therefore a genuine Lister generator set.

I've sent the advertiser a message to ask for a photo.

Vickie
PS,

They flew spitfires that ran on CS listers and peanut butter.,Dont listen to them.They could be bigger liars than me..
        But,,CS ticks a lot of boxs,and they make a lot of people very happy,some of them run at 650 rpm on veg oil,,h,mmmm
         Like Paul says "Dont be hasty" Good luck
                                                  Biff       

Didn't Snoopy fly his spitfire on peanut butter sandwiches?

[greenhouseparos]

6m deep the water level or the bottom of the well?
I use a Lorentz Pump 150m deep bore hole with water level about 30-40m. 600w of solar panels pumps 4000lt a day (if needed) into a storage tank then a 500w pump with 60lt pressure tank feeding house.
6m is not so far a lift for a surface pump and you could fit a pressure tank to it so you only need one pump and no storge tank so lower costs. all depends on your water usage and the wells ability to refill.
Maybe borrow a petrol powered pump to test the wells refill time.
Paul
(If your plumber is coming to give you a quote get him to test the well. He should have a petrol powered pump. Knowing the capabiliteis of the water source is a first point of consideration when sizing things)

[Justme]

Yes both pumps are AC.

[billi]

... I would never install a strong AC  waterpump  off grid again , mine is about 1400 watt , but ok, works fine (i have ca 6000 watt inverter)

 but it comes on  (have a 100 l pressure tank with it) while washing machine or dishwasher is on ..... not ideal

[V]

6m deep the water level or the bottom of the well?
I use a Lorentz Pump 150m deep bore hole with water level about 30-40m. 600w of solar panels pumps 4000lt a day (if needed) into a storage tank then a 500w pump with 60lt pressure tank feeding house.
.
Paul
(If your plumber is coming to give you a quote get him to test the well. He should have a petrol powered pump. Knowing the capabiliteis of the water source is a first point of consideration when sizing things)

Refresh test here:
http://wordpress.easterdown.co.uk/?p=103

These were the notes we sent to the Well people:

Results:

Mike’s Conclusions:

=========================

The well is 6.17m deep.
The water surface was 5.4m down and the pump occupied about 0.3m.
This means that we had about 0.5m of water above the pump.

We previously estimated the cross-sectional area of the well to be 1.17sq m, but let’s very conservatively say it is 1sq m (at that depth).

If we pump it down to 5.9m then it refreshes to 5.6m in 2hrs. This is 66gallons or 300 litres. We could do this every 2 hours. If we did it more frequently from 5.9m (say each half hour) then the refresh rate would be higher (by 50%).

The Environment Agency say that the per person per day water requirement is 33 gallons or 150 litres (but in the future households should use 20% less than this) so a household of 6 people would require three 2hr pump-refresh cycles.

[Justme]

I think your pump run times are too high for the size of pump.

In 2 hours a 1000w pump could have moved over 4000L.

[V]

I think your pump run times are too high for the size of pump.

In 2 hours a 1000w pump could have moved over 4000L.

Sorry, the figures above were for our refresh rate test. We pumped it as hard as we could to empty it and see how long it would take to fill again.

Saw well person this morning, and I haven't got his spec yet, but the well pump he proposes is 510w. He mentioned some kind of probe/float type system to stop it pumping.

On the Lister side
Hawker siddley person has put up these photos next to the ad (and I think raised the price, just can't remember?)
I know that I'm a novice, but I can't see any engine here, am I just being obtuse?

[camillitech]

Well V,

it looks like a pukka 'Lister Power Plant' mains failure set of very high spec with a HD alternator and 'long running' sump. If the hour meter is to be believed then it's barely 'run in' but if the ammeter is to be believed it's probably a 10kw so probably a little OTT. No idea what model the engine is but at that sort of output and labeled 'Hawker Siddley' I'd guess an ST3 or HR2, definitely worth investigating.

Having just re read the advert I reckon HR2, either way, if it were me and I needed a generator I'd buy it.

Good luck, Paul

[V]

Gulp!
Are we going to need to disconnect it? Do I need to find a friendly electrician to help me collect it? When we go to see it, should I ask to see it start up?