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Author Topic: ASHP on BBC You and Yours  (Read 11424 times)
mike7
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« on: November 26, 2013, 02:48:44 PM »

An ashp installation got a pasting on Monday's You and Yours - about 36 mins in. See what you think of it, and then maybe have a look at Sean's comment in The Other Place.http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=11458&page=1#Item_0
 
Misinformation, badly carried out and disappointing result - from the BBC I mean.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 02:50:29 PM by mike7 » Logged
martin
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 03:05:02 PM »

Perhaps in this case the Beeb overdid it, but there is no doubt heat pumps are often grossly and wrongly oversold, and unless the system is very carefully designed and installed, often ludicrously expensive to run - if people make the other improvements they'll use far less "fuel" whatever system they use for heating whistlie
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desperate
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 08:00:06 PM »

True, although in this case the HP was sold about right, but it would seem that the recipient was more interested in the grant than actually saving any CO2 emissions. If people make those improvements and use a HP they'll use even less fuel.

Desp
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guydewdney
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 09:46:11 PM »

the muppets that installed my mums ashp in north somerset used a 4 amp rated cable (yes - as in lighting size) - for a 30kw output (ish) ashp. needless to say the cable caught light, and luckily didnt burn the house down.
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dhaslam
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 11:57:36 PM »

Her total electricity bill of 4 per day  or 28 per week doesn't  seem all that much.    The alternative, a 50 kilo bag of coal costs about 17.50,   and there  still would be some electricity cost as well, including DHW.        If it is  used just for the ten low cost hours and assuming that it uses about 3 kW and  electricity is about 7P that would cost  just 2 per day, less than a weekly bag of coal. The winter fuel allowance would pay for 100 days and nothing to stop her burning fence posts as well.   Not really much grounds for complaint.         
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2013, 12:12:16 AM »

the muppets that installed my mums ashp in north somerset used a 4 amp rated cable (yes - as in lighting size) - for a 30kw output (ish) ashp. needless to say the cable caught light, and luckily didnt burn the house down.
probably intended as the coms cable for the thermostat or something.

ps - the company involved is on this thread on Green Building forum... looks like there's an entirely different side to this story, with the home owner insisting on having this installed against their advice, and them only agreeing to it because she promised she was going to carry out a load of insulation work herself, most of which never happened, so unsurprisingly the system ended up being massively undersized for the actual heat loss, and therefore using the immersions a lot more than intended.

There had also previously only been 2 rooms heated via storage heaters, vs the entire house being heated with this system, so not that surprising that it costs more to heat the entire house than to heat 2 rooms only.
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Other-Power
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2013, 09:19:22 AM »

Is there a link to this on Iplayer, I missed it?

Thanks

Jon
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mike7
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 12:46:19 AM »

Try this- the relevant bit starts about 36 mins in:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03j9h7f/You_and_Yours_nPower_Timeshares_Broadband_bills/
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 09:09:35 AM »

When I did the sums on installing and running HP's, I was dismayed at the abysmall pay back for that type of heating source, and infact I found the Ground heat pump had absolutely no merit, and the Air source wasn't much better.

I have a friend in Belgium who had a new 3 bed house built on an estate where every house had a deep bore hole drilled, but the Killer is that the 3kw circulation pump is just about constantly ON.
He worked it out that he would have been far better of having more insulation in to passive house standards and his heating costs would be minimal.

So for me all that very expensive embedded equipment, tubes, all that digging, all that complicated circulation heat recovery equipment, the electricity required to circulate etc etc has no financial merit. Full Stop.

Insulate, Insulate, Insulate and more insulation.

Sorry if I upset anyone flogging this stuff, but I will always bassh on about the Non sense-ical HP's.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 09:11:24 AM by clockmanFR » Logged

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oliver90owner
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 09:23:16 AM »

A circulation pump of 3kW?!?

As there are only pipe losses (no static head) for a circulation pump, I am wondering exactly how much was circulating.  That is one huge pump in a domestic situation.

The compressor was likely not much bigger than that?
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 09:33:43 AM »

The bore hole was deep, not sure how deep.

In the photo the Electric motor had stamped on its side 3kW. I had a link 4 years ago but it doesn't work now.
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Other-Power
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 09:50:01 AM »

I have a friend in Belgium who had a new 3 bed house built on an estate where every house had a deep bore hole drilled, but the Killer is that the 3kw circulation pump is just about constantly ON.

Was the pump for the whole estate or just his house, communal bore holes are common on the continent, they are just coming in over here?

Thanks

Jon
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2013, 10:01:57 AM »

Nope every house had its own, a little brick structure at the bottom of the garden, and the hole was over 50m in depth.

I have just looked for the motor size, and can not find much actual tech data on deepbore actual pump unit themselves.

I remember the conversation with the guy, a business colleague of my Mrs, "yes I do have a ground source system," "er, yes I will send you the link", "I have sent you a rough Picture, "and yes it says 3kW on the large electric motor itself".

All this was about 5 years ago, but as I said I can not find the link or Pic, new computer now, as last died of hard disc failure so old mails gone.

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Other-Power
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 10:04:00 AM »

Fair enough, Its a massive pump if it was just circulating for the GSHP, maybe it was for pumping water?

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brackwell
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 10:11:46 AM »

I think it is appalling that this women ever had a ASHP fitted and could have a claim for misselling.

There can hardly be a worse situation to fit a ASHP   -  Orkneys (cold,windy,damp), Solid walls,concrete floor,exposed,drafty,open chimney,placed in a ditch.  These are all words used in the clip. Should never have been fitted.  These things are horses for courses so get it wrong and you have a lame horse.

Ken
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