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Author Topic: Backup generator for a low consumption on-grid house?  (Read 16840 times)
camillitech
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2013, 09:09:51 PM »

Hi Paul,
     I have to admitt that one of the little two stroke early aldi yellow generators had a fuel tap exactly like the one you posted and when I qent to turn it on the lever crumbled away in my hand,now that was very unusual

Biff, that tap is NEVER going to seal it's just a plain engineering piece of carp of the first order, just look at it, there is no way of sealing the threads!!! A tap like that would never pass quality control in any other industrialized nation. The rubber washer only seals the nut, it does not seal the threads, and no you can't use PTFE on petrol.

I don't have bad luck, you have good luck, the stuff is junk.

Cheers, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
biff
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2013, 12:12:54 AM »

If I recall properly,
                 Sealing the thing was tricky enough,I did use a fiber gasket,like a tap washer,but I also sealed the nut onto the shank as well.It was not a very clever design.The origional rubber gasket was supposed to compress and spread out ,sealing the threads on the shank,However,if you overtightened the thing or stripped it down to clean it,you had to get a new rubber gasket because the old one would never find its origional position ,being damaged taking it apart.
      Funny enough you find that kind of idiot behaviour on a lot of chinese gear,I remember buying a few silent running 5kw jobbies,the exact same as the hyundai 5kw,"except" that the low oil switch was wired in wrong on them,one even had fine plastic film round the oil filter which I found out by pure accident(the engine could have been wrecked in the 10 mins of running).The same batch had cheap inline filters.However the big things were good.It was a bit like a hobby for me,I fitted the proper gear to them and was amazed that they lasted as long as they did.It was very important to tighten the head down on the non silent ones,after the first couple of weeks running,,I was told that if I left them too long till the oil started running down the side,that I would maybe need a new head gasket.,However the silent running jobbies were a different kettle of fish,,same engine and works but fan forced cooled through a cooking foil lined cowling which was clamped round the head and an absolute nusance to work at.The cooking foil came loose and bits blocked the cooling ducts.I was lucky enough to have dodged that particular breed of animal, hysteria,It was the small differences in them liike this that made some stay alive longer than others, enough to pay their way.The lecky was very good and they were not short of power,I particularly liked the little 2.8kw diesel key start,Great starters,good power and cheap as chips and parts were cheap but they were noisy buxxers.I think I still have a section devoted to them or should I say a casulty department hysteria.     Biff
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skyewright
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« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2013, 06:43:57 PM »

And the winner is...

... a petrol Honda EU20i.

We decided go for that as the ECO setting is enough for "business as usual" (aside from the kettle, of course), but on full throttle it can manage a small microwave for a hot meal.

Pete "Power" Noble (who I first saw mentoned here on Navitron, by justme) was able to find us a good deal.  Grin
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 06:48:19 PM by skyewright » Logged

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David
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DaveSnafu
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2013, 08:54:54 PM »

I have had good value out of yanmar clone enclosed gennys, I know people on here do not like them but lets face it................when I came to start mine both here and in portugal (I have two) I was very impressed with the carp chinky starter battery......portugal....1 year unused........wales 3 years unused, both start up first time, the one at home is older.......and yes we do suffer from work hardened wires (or loose bullet connectors)......................but it only takes a wobble of the loom to make it go.
Yeah Yeah I hear the "buy cheap buy twice", but it allowed me to have one at both ends,.........the guy who sold me them was also selling stephill gennys..........he explained that the more expensive sets used the same components with different badges, he showed me the same components in both brands.............I had to move the van twice as it was in the way of forklifts shipping the buggers out, they move a lot of them, a local burger stand has had the same "kipor" (kipper) for about ten years, used all day every day, his business relies on it.
I do love listers, don't get me wrong..............but they have become a bit "horsey" in price.
A replacement yanmar clone engine is 300 complete,(as used in enfield diesel bike) and the parts are cheap and plentiful.
I have a shed full of oxidising honda engines............
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biff
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2013, 12:39:56 AM »

The kipur is the name of the one my friend got about 10 years ago,
                               I set it up for him,its has had a hard life and barely recognisable because it is battered all over from being lugged around all over the place,it still starts and runs first time every time.
                                                       Biff
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camillitech
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2013, 06:05:59 AM »

I have had good value out of yanmar clone enclosed gennys, I know people on here do not like them but lets face it................when I came to start mine both here and in portugal (I have two) I was very impressed with the carp chinky starter battery......portugal....1 year unused........wales 3 years unused, both start up first time, the one at home is older.......and yes we do suffer from work hardened wires (or loose bullet connectors)......................but it only takes a wobble of the loom to make it go.
Yeah Yeah I hear the "buy cheap buy twice", but it allowed me to have one at both ends,.........the guy who sold me them was also selling stephill gennys..........he explained that the more expensive sets used the same components with different badges, he showed me the same components in both brands.............I had to move the van twice as it was in the way of forklifts shipping the buggers out, they move a lot of them, a local burger stand has had the same "kipor" (kipper) for about ten years, used all day every day, his business relies on it.
I do love listers, don't get me wrong..............but they have become a bit "horsey" in price.
A replacement yanmar clone engine is 300 complete,(as used in enfield diesel bike) and the parts are cheap and plentiful.
I have a shed full of oxidising honda engines............


Seems to work for you and Biff Dave but me I just don't see the logic,



1000 delivered to Skye from Perth, 1500rpm, 15KVA, 1978, 50hours, embodied energy long since used up will last another lifetime or two.



1100 delivered to my door from Southampton (from this forum), 7KVA 1971, 50hours, will still be running when Hell freezes over.

Or of course I could just buy half a dozen or so bits of junk from the other side of the planet.

I could understand if this was the 'Money saving expert' forum but I thought we were about saving the planet and not feeding the Juggernaut of consumerism by importing more carp built with coal fired power stations.

Sorry for the 'wee rant', we'll just have to agree to disagree  Wink 
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2013, 07:46:39 AM »

I wish i could justify one of those.... lovely
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« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2013, 08:06:56 AM »

You must stop with these filthy photos Paul - I want one!
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billi
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« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2013, 08:15:36 AM »

Well... Do one need a vintage tractor or electricity ?
I would not spent a penny on a generator ! With close to 4 kW PV on the roof ......especially when one can harvest Fit payments for own consumption....

The best generator I know is PV a Battery and an Inverter (Victron, Studer, Sunny Island....)
And one could use the PV to a nearly all year round , day and night power supply ....without diesel or petrol

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« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2013, 08:21:03 AM »

"but I thought we were about saving the planet and not feeding the Juggernaut of consumerism by importing more carp built with coal fired power stations.

Sorry for the 'wee rant', we'll just have to agree to disagree. "


Well said Paul. Grin

I do like that pic of your 15kva. At my age, Sad to say, I prefer looking at the 15kva than girlie, (or whatever floats your boat) mags.

My generation of reality,    hysteria hysteria hysteria
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AlanM
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2013, 08:38:58 AM »

Hi Billi, sorry but PV just doesnt cut it in the north of Scotland in the Winter, I have 4.5kW and at the moment I am lucky if I even generate a single kWh in a day. Have had weeks of cloudy days with only glimpses of sun. As I said to V, there must be another source, either wind, hydro, or diesel.

Alan
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martin
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2013, 08:53:01 AM »

It's horses for courses! The original post was describing a very different scenario from those who are firmly "off grid"-  yes, I'd love a Lister, as would most of us, but to provide power for infrequent power cuts is a very different kettle of Kipors.... Whether we like it or not, almost everything we buy nowadays is made in China, which we all know has provided some really badly-made equipment in the past, but they also make loads of  stuff for major "Western" companies to the highest standards, so I think it's wrong to completely dismiss everything unless it's a Lister (or Honda).
If you're grid-connected, have the odd power cut, and only have the corner of the shed or garage to store a genny, then a small petrol suitcase job is entirely adequate, as well as needing a dedicated engine shed for a big diesel. Like others, I've seen the gennies that things like Burger vans use year in, year out - usually unbranded Honda clones, or "Medusas" , happily chuntering away, year in, year out....
I knew full well that I'd call down the wrath of god upon my head for mentioning the cheapos from the German supermarkets, but I still maintain (was that the right word?) that for very infrequent use, if you don't have a lot of loot in the kitty, they may well be worth a twirl - they are ludicrously cheap (60), and they really can't be THAT bad if they're offering 3 year guarantees on them (you don't need many returns to lose all the profit on that figure). Having played with a couple of them, I was very pleasantly surprised by how good they were - and the likes of Clarke and SIP are now offering versions, complete with spares backup...... A new Honda 20i is over 1200, for which you could buy 20 of them, or at least a couple of similar capacity models from the likes of Hyundai, or 3 from Kipor or Clarkes.....
There is a general point about generators that may be being missed - in the right circumstance, they may actually be the most eco-friendly (and economic) way to provide power - time and again we've had queries of the "we want to light our lambing shed in winter, what do we need in the way of pvs and batteries?" - in that case, a generator or couple of Tilley lamps wins hands down.........I suspect that a lot of problems with generators comes from neglect and abuse (rather like batteries) - a chap I know in the local market buys anything he can find in the generator line, and I often find him struggling to start one that's been dredged from a barn - most of them are revived with simple attention and clean fuel.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 09:10:01 AM by martin » Logged

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oliver90owner
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« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2013, 09:35:13 AM »

Well said Martin.  Def horses for courses.

I've had a few pass through my hands. A couple not big enough to start a freezer without over-speeding them first; a couple I would not bother to try to use and just moved them on; a 35kVA three phase monster, tractor driven; another Honda portable which now resides with son in law in Scotland.  Oh, and a pto driven rotating field genny sits in the garden, as well as an abandoned 7 1/2kVA project connected to a Wisconsin VE4.

But for most of that time, my little Hatz diesel E75, with a Stamford genny attached, has sat in my garage.  Engine begins to to black smoke at around  3 1/2kW but genny is 4 1/2kVA, so no worries on that score.

It has been used umpteen times in those 30+ years, but only ever once during a power cut at home.  It was old when I got it but will still start easily.  We are lucky that where we live there are several feeders to a multi-megawatt factory just down the road, so power cuts are few and usually of short duration.  Others may not be so lucky.  That one occasion when I fired it up during a mains outage could easily have been accommodated with a 300W suitcase genny.

RAB


 
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biff
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« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2013, 09:45:42 AM »

I regard Lister as the rolls of generators,
                       I even have a very nice CS Lister in storage in "Der Shed",in fact I have at least half a dozen Lister powered items from Pan mixers,cement mixers and stationary engines.I do like them so you will not get me saying anything bad about them.Maybe it is because they are a permanent machine,very heavy and not given to being lugged about the place,that they take a back seat to the cheapos.
  Dave made a very good point about their start up performance.They do fire up at the first touch of the key.I would have had one of the first remote controlled ones arounds here and that was quite something,it is still working away.
            Years ago someone asked me what I did about power,I lifted this little white remote with 2 buttons,red and green and pressed the red one.The geni which was hidden 120ft away started up.needess to say I did not keep that one very long.I never got my hands on another remote controlled one again.My guess was that it was just too dangerous.I planned to hook the electronics up to a 2kw PMG but like so many other dreams,that will have to take a little longer.
                Biff
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skyewright
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« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2013, 09:46:44 AM »

1000 delivered to Skye from Perth, 1500rpm, 15KVA, 1978, 50hours, embodied energy long since used up will last another lifetime or two.
1100 delivered to my door from Southampton (from this forum), 7KVA 1971, 50hours, will still be running when Hell freezes over.
A great solution for my neighbour who's also decided to get a genny, but has a house (with B&B) & 4 self-catering cottages all on the same supply (& who happens to be an electrical engineer)...
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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
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