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Author Topic: Backup generator for a low consumption on-grid house?  (Read 16838 times)
skyewright
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« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2013, 09:57:43 AM »

I would not spent a penny on a generator ! With close to 4 kW PV on the roof ......especially when one can harvest Fit payments for own consumption....
The PVGIS-4 SAF 14% suggested average for our 'close to 4kWp on our roof' is just under 1.5kWh.

In the last 7 days actual generation is just a tad under 2kWh, of which 1.5kWh was yesterday.

How big a battery set do you suggest I get?
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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40°, WSW, Lat 57° 9' (Isle of Skye)
oliver90owner
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« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2013, 10:10:26 AM »

At your current rate of generation? A pp3 might be big enough!  ralph

RAB
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skyewright
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« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2013, 10:13:11 AM »

...for which you could buy 20 of them...
And the embodied energy in 20 cheapies would be?

I was talking to my brother yesterday evening on the phone. He has 3 generators, ranging from 550W to 3kW all purchased at car boot sales & all less than £50 (even the 3kW Honda was only £45 - no wheels however so it took him 20 minutes to lug it to the car). That's great. He lives in a place where he can go to car boots every week & has been tinkering with engines since he was a kid (his first motor bike - a Greaves 250 - had 2 engines, one on the bench & one in the bike, regularly swapped over). He once bought me a really great book "The Reluctant Motor Mechanic", the title of which was very apt.  Smiley

Horses for courses, as you say.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 10:15:49 AM by skyewright » Logged

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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40°, WSW, Lat 57° 9' (Isle of Skye)
skyewright
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« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2013, 10:14:52 AM »

At your current rate of generation? A pp3 might be big enough!  ralph
& just as useful as a flat big set of FLAs...
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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40°, WSW, Lat 57° 9' (Isle of Skye)
martin
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« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2013, 10:26:40 AM »

"for which you could buy 20 of them" - yes, we're talking money, the financial outlay of one's hard-earned, NOT the idea of actually buying 20 of them and causing them to be manufactured. Yes, in a perfect world we'd all love Listers/Hondas/our own wind turbine/hydro install, but down here in the real world there's some of us who have to cut their coats according to not a lot of cloth, and circumstances very different from those who are lucky/sensible enough to be "living the dream", and having the need, space, and ability to pay for exotica - which of us doesn't secretly lust after a Lamborghini or a Morgan, but has to settle for the affordable and pragmatic?
I think generators are often "male toys/jewellery" that enable us to silently beat our hairy chests - "I bring POWER and light to the darkness - I am independent, I am above the national grid - I provide for my family", please, let the guy who lives in a normal house, leading a normal and pretty boring on-grid  life have his excuse to beat his chest too - albeit following the outlay of only £60, and the excuse of an hour's power outage once every couple of years to let it boogie..... ralph
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 10:28:24 AM by martin » Logged

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skyewright
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« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2013, 11:12:56 AM »

...which of us doesn't secretly lust after a Lamborghini or a Morgan...
Me for one. A GT6 was all I ever aspired to & I got that out of my system many many years ago. Oddly, one of the things I liked about the GT6 (& Spitfire) was the fuel consumption. Being relatively light they were very economical (compared to most cars of the day) when driven sensibly...
There are probably quite a few other things you don't know about me & my circumstances too, so I'll assume your post was entirely non-specific.  Smiley


...years to let it boogie.....
I hope you feel better for having got all that off your chest.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 11:44:53 AM by skyewright » Logged

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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40°, WSW, Lat 57° 9' (Isle of Skye)
billi
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« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2013, 12:53:16 PM »

Hi Billi, sorry but PV just doesnt cut it in the north of Scotland in the Winter, I have 4.5kW and at the moment I am lucky if I even generate a single kWh in a day. Have had weeks of cloudy days with only glimpses of sun. As I said to V, there must be another source, either wind, hydro, or diesel.

Alan
I know .....in winter it is difficult to live on PV .....,but this was not the thread starters idea ....the idea was to be able to cope with under 5 kWh during a powercutof say 24 hours.....my 40 kWh battery would do this then easy for a couple of days.…Ok costet me about 600 GBS
If we take the recycling value of , that is ca 7 years back ....and this battery supplies all our needs off grid since then ...during times I have a power cut ....my power cut is ,when the sun sets ,....every night ,,,,and very glad not to have to have a backup generator
So my thinking here is ,....spent another 1500 GBP on a 3000 watt victron Multiplus Offgrid inverter and benefit whole year round  Wink

Instead of a monster generator ,that needs fuel and a house

All the best
billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
skyewright
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« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2013, 03:06:34 PM »

40 kWh battery would do this then easy for a couple of days.…...
So my thinking here is ,....spent another 1500 GBP on a 3000 watt victron Multiplus Offgrid inverter and benefit whole year round  Wink
i.e. another 1500 GBP on top of the cost of 40kWh of batteries (plus various switches & wiring, somewhere for it to live, etc.), making a total of...

A nice big set of batteries is a lovely idea, but I covered that in the OP.

Instead of a monster generator ,that needs fuel and a house
Fuel, fair enough (Though how much distilled water does a well maintained set of 40kWh consume in a year, so there are some "consumables"? Ah, of course, being a plutocrat  hysteria I'd obviously have hydrocaps), but I'd have thought that 40kWh of batteries required more of a house that a 21kg, 510x290x425 generator?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 03:16:38 PM by skyewright » Logged

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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40°, WSW, Lat 57° 9' (Isle of Skye)
camillitech
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« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2013, 06:46:38 PM »


I think generators are often "male toys/jewellery" that enable us to silently beat our hairy chests - "I bring POWER and light to the darkness - I am independent, I am above the national grid - I provide for my family", please, let the guy who lives in a normal house, leading a normal and pretty boring on-grid  life have his excuse to beat his chest too - albeit following the outlay of only £60, and the excuse of an hour's power outage once every couple of years to let it boogie..... ralph

Yup, I'm with you there Martin, my generator obsession took a serious hold when most other middle aged men buy a motorbike or sports car and run off with the secretary  hysteria
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
billi
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« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2013, 07:02:29 PM »

 Smiley sure ,its your Generator sitting somewhere ....and wait on the odd occasion ....

I Just Come from the idea that people can probably  save a coin  each day ...…having a battery based Ups idea....seen over 10 years ...this could generate some payback .…..is this the fact with a generator and its housing ??
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
biff
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« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2013, 07:09:35 PM »

There is another very important point,
                          I am not being arguementive just for the sake of it but having a Lister running,especially the slow reving ones with the big flywheel means that you have to have them locked down behinds very stringent safety guards.They are not suitable for anyone other than the person who knows about them,They are more suitable for the enthusiast because the do not come ready to roll,They have uncovered dangerous flywheels,and dangerous shafts sticking out,they have to be wired in properly.Now if like you Paul, who have been working Listers all your life,need to do some little job like fix a starter and solinoid to Cyril,well that would simply be beyond the average persons ability.However,buying a Hyundai means that it comes ready to roll,just plug and play,You dont have to spend time drilling big holes in the floor to get it from bouncing about and if you want to borrow it,you just wheel it out into the back of the van and away with it.
                                                   Biff
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martin
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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2013, 07:18:02 PM »

Can't find the clip, but I remember a Youtube video of an Indian manufacturer of Lister clones starting up a "loose" one outside their "works" (looked like a lockup garage)- a real H&S nightmare - had it tilted and taken off on the flywheel........ ralph
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 07:24:33 PM by martin » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2013, 07:28:27 PM »

found it! facepalm
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camillitech
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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2013, 07:50:25 PM »

There is another very important point,
                          I am not being arguementive just for the sake of it but having a Lister running,especially the slow reving ones with the big flywheel means that you have to have them locked down behinds very stringent safety guards.They are not suitable for anyone other than the person who knows about them,They are more suitable for the enthusiast because the do not come ready to roll,They have uncovered dangerous flywheels,and dangerous shafts sticking out,they have to be wired in properly.Now if like you Paul, who have been working Listers all your life,need to do some little job like fix a starter and solinoid to Cyril,well that would simply be beyond the average persons ability.However,buying a Hyundai means that it comes ready to roll,just plug and play,You dont have to spend time drilling big holes in the floor to get it from bouncing about and if you want to borrow it,you just wheel it out into the back of the van and away with it.
                                                   Biff

There is absolutely nothing sticking out on Cyril or Harry that could catch a tie, trouser leg or even child's finger, the only concern would be the exhaust, but mine are lagged and up high.



But yes you are right Biff, they are not 'plug and play', need lots of concrete and a special house. Hardly relevant to this thread, but if you take living 'off grid' seriously,  then you shouldn't be messing about with a rusty high revving diesel engine under a tarp at the back of the house. If I want to break rocks two miles over the hill I strap my 'Chinese junk' on the back of the quad and just go.





It does the job as good as my trusty Makita 1900 did for a fraction of the cost but it pishes out petrol and oil and I certainly wouldn't buy one. It's 'horses for courses' and I think Skyewright made the right move with a second hand Honda and not something that has an 80% chance of working straight out of the box. I say 80% because of the six bought on Raasay only 4 of them worked so I'm being generous  hysteria
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
camillitech
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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2013, 07:56:09 PM »

...which of us doesn't secretly lust after a Lamborghini or a Morgan...
Me for one. A GT6 was all I ever aspired to & I got that out of my system many many years ago. Oddly, one of the things I liked about the GT6 (& Spitfire) was the fuel consumption. Being relatively light they were very economical (compared to most cars of the day) when driven sensibly...
There are probably quite a few other things you don't know about me & my circumstances too, so I'll assume your post was entirely non-specific.  Smiley


...years to let it boogie.....
I hope you feel better for having got all that off your chest.



It was a GT6 I had David, 1969 MkII nine years old with wire wheels and only one owner  genuflect 15mph to 115mph in fourth gear. OK it seized up on the M6 and I had to be towed home but I still loved it  Grin
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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