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Author Topic: One year in... some GSHP numbers  (Read 22290 times)
davec
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2014, 11:36:57 AM »

Quote
The only way to calculate COP is with a heat and electric  meter, anything else is a guess. The figures above would give COPs between 5.7 and 6.9 which is clearly unrealistic.

Agreed, but the RHI will probably consider EPC / MCS estimates if there's no metered figures. We jumped through the hoops to make ours 'meter ready' but DECC's not been to fit one. Believe they're now hoping that folk will fit their own as part of an installer maintenance deal... not obvious to me what benefit that might bring?

Whatever, looks like you're not spending fortunes on heating which must be a very pleasing result!

Davec.
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sam123
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2014, 04:52:19 AM »

Some numbers from Finland. Results have been measured with Pollucom energymeter (google). Hope it translates well. Ask if you donīt understand something.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Flampopumput.info%2Ffoorumi%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D12902.0

Summarum: Annual year-COP 3.8 with DHW. In Finland we can only dream 5 degree brine liquid  Cry It is one degree and 3% better COP.

Cheers, Sami
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 05:33:35 AM by sam123 » Logged
davec
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2015, 10:06:47 AM »

And two years in....

Year1, Dec-2012/3 was:-
Quote
Total import 8361kWh (3412 high-rate, 4949 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (4420); DHW about 10% (Immersion 650 plus heat-pump 216); the remaining 40% is cooking, light, appliances, kettle....

Year2, Dec-2013/4 was:-
Total import 7845kWh (3226 high-rate, 4619 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (3725); DHW about 10% (Immersion 636 plus heat-pump 144); the remaining 40% is cooking, light, appliances, kettle....

So, Y2 numbers a bit less than Y1. Possible contributers: room-stats reduced by 1degC, now 17; HP compensation curve reduced by 4degC; and the weather was generally a lot nicer.

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titan
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2015, 09:54:54 AM »

I think last year was milder. I also dropped the flow temperature and increased the temperature differential between the cut out and restart temperatures as I thought there is a bit of an overshoot before the stat operated.

It is a 240 m2 heated envelope I increased the bedroom temperatures to 18.5 deg and the main living area to 21 deg. 2013 I imported 5118 kWh and the HP used 2507kWh last year I imported 3731 kWh and the HP used 1593 kWh. The HP is on 24/7. The house is all electric.

Kensa reckon that buried pipe systems get better for a few years after installation as the ground settles
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davec
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2016, 09:06:38 PM »

And, three years in....

Year1, Dec-2012/3 was:-
Quote
Total import 8361kWh (3412 high-rate, 4949 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (4420); DHW about 10% (Immersion 650 plus heat-pump 216); the remaining 40% is cooking, light, appliances, kettle....

Year2, Dec-2013/4 was:-
Quote
Total import 7845kWh (3226 high-rate, 4619 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (3725); DHW about 10% (Immersion 636 plus heat-pump 144); the remaining 40% is cooking, light, appliances, kettle....

Year3 Dec-2014/5 was:-
Total import 7862kWh (3324 high-rate, 4538 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (4221); DHW about 6% (Immersion 343 plus heat-pump 128); the remainder is cooking, light, appliances, kettle, MineCraft....So, Y3 numbers very much on a par with Y2. DHW was reduced by reprogramming the immersion timer to knock out one hour of on-time a day; also fitted a flow-limiter to my childrens' favourite shower (bad dad).
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marshman
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 09:33:24 PM »

Nice to see yet more numbers coming in.

In my case the EPC figure is a complete work of fiction. It quoted 30,546 kWh per year just for the heating. The installer calculated 11,515kWh. Based on the (nearly) 2 months the system has been running I reckon the Heatpump will use around 2000kWh per year including hot water production. So if I used the EPC figure I would end up with a CoP of around 15 which is clearly rubbish. My place is also an old brick/stone/rubble built place with parts dating back to the 1700's It has been renovated and is fairly well insulated. It is 240 sq m, detached and in a very exposed position.

I'll be back in 10 months time to give the full years figures, though as has been mentioned elsewhere the ground loop trenches are still settling so some improvement could be expected there.

Roger
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3.15kWpk (15xSharp ND210)/SB3000. & 3.675kWpk (15 x Suntech 245WD)/SB4000TL, 10kW GSHP driving Wirsbo underfloor heating from 1200m ground loops. 10' x 7' solar wall (experimental). Clearview 650 Wood Burning Stove. MHRV - diy retrofit. Triple glazing.
davec
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2016, 08:48:09 PM »

And, four years in....

Year1, Dec-2012/3 was:-
Quote
Total import 8361kWh (3412 high-rate, 4949 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (4420); DHW about 10% (Immersion 650 plus heat-pump 216); the remaining 40% is cooking, light, appliances, kettle....

Year2, Dec-2013/4 was:-
Quote
Total import 7845kWh (3226 high-rate, 4619 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (3725); DHW about 10% (Immersion 636 plus heat-pump 144); the remaining 40% is cooking, light, appliances, kettle....

Year3 Dec-2014/5 was:-
Quote
Total import 7862kWh (3324 high-rate, 4538 low). GSHP heating accounts for about 50% of this (4221); DHW about 6% (Immersion 343 plus heat-pump 128); the remainder is cooking, light, appliances, kettle, MineCraft....

Year4 Dec-2015/6 was:-
Total import 8841kWh (3871 high-rate, 4970 low). GSHP accounts for about 50% (4504); DHW about 7% (Immersion 563 + heat-pump 97); remainder much as before.... So, Y4 numbers up on Y3 but not massively out of kilter given that the kids are staying up longer nowadays, leaving lights on and doors open...
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marshman
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2016, 11:51:22 AM »

Mine has now been installed and running for 12 months. In my last post I guestimated an annual electric consumption of around 2000kWh.  This has turned out to be a tad optimistic, but not that wide of the mark.

Total for 12 months 2330kWh for the heatpump. That's heating a 240 sq m, 5 bedroom detached house in an exposed position and providing DHW.  It runs 24/7.

I am expecting this to reduce over the next 12 months as since being fitted I have replaced the old windows with triple glazed and also replaced/rebuilt the draughty front porch and fitted a less draughty back door & generally improved the airtightness of the building. I am also still tweaking the heat curve. At the end of November when we had the cold snap The house was getting too warm!

Interestingly the ground loops are still settling! Looked in the field last week and noticed another trench top has collapsed inwards. I think this is the last one!

Incoming temps from the ground loop started at 14 deg this year and rapidly dropped to 11 deg where they are now. Last season they dropped to 8 deg at the end of March but rose to 10 deg by May when the heating shut it self down.

Total electric consumption was 5700kWh for the whole house - we are all electric but do have 3.15kWpk of Solar PV.  I have a dual rate meter (Economy 7) but find it is cheaper to have a single rate electric Tariff.

Roger
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3.15kWpk (15xSharp ND210)/SB3000. & 3.675kWpk (15 x Suntech 245WD)/SB4000TL, 10kW GSHP driving Wirsbo underfloor heating from 1200m ground loops. 10' x 7' solar wall (experimental). Clearview 650 Wood Burning Stove. MHRV - diy retrofit. Triple glazing.
Mikel
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2016, 01:30:51 PM »

We have had our GSHP installed in since March 2013, a 10Kw GSHP with 3*40m horizontally laid slinkies. The GSHP provides heating to oversized radiators and DHW to 50C in a twin coil 305L hot water tank, with solar thermal providing DHW as well. We have had an electricity meter fitted to the GSHP since 10th Jan 2014 and a heat meter fitted since end 0f January 2014, together with an experimental control system. We have had a wood burner in the lounge from August 2014.

The GSHP is heating a 3-bed bungalow of 145 sq. m (originally a 4 bed bungalow but we converted one bedroom into a dining room).

Since Jan 2014, the GSHP has used 4080 kWh of electricity and an expected further 300 kWh till 10th Jan 2017, giving an estimated annual consumption of 1460 kWh. For Winter 2014/5 (Nov-Mar), the GSHP gave a CoP of 3.49 and for Winter 2015/6 a CoP of 3.44. The current CoP calculation (Nov-15th Dec) gives 3.55, reflecting no doubt the higher ground temps.

The wood burner allows us to heat the rest of the house to a lower temperature of 16C most of the time, exceptions being any particular cold spell.

We are very pleased with the system and whilst no doubt that UFH would be better, we can get very good performance out of oversized radiators.
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brackwell
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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2016, 01:38:03 PM »

Very informative Mikel ,thanks
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dhaslam
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2016, 01:48:20 PM »

I have been using mine a bit differently this year.   No heat from the stove to the buffer tank  so the  heat pump is providing all the underfloor heating and  consumption has reached  1200 kWh  which is about the same as previous full years.   It brings the annual electricity  cost for heating to about 400 euro  but that includes a temperature of  up to  23C in living area  and  20-21C  in bedroom area.   I am now contemplating removing the stove  and adding an air source heat pump.    The air source  heat pump  would be used during the middle of the day primarily  and should have an  input temperature  on average of 7C  in the three coldest months.  It would serve as an alternative source  if the other system failed  and  would save  depleting the seasonal store.  The  seasonal store would be used as the heat source at night when the weather is too cold for the ground loop.  The ASHP  should not add much to the annual running cost,  since the GSHP is already being used at day rates, but the alternative of replacing the stove  with another would add nearly 1000 in annual fuel cost.  
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DHW 250 litre cylinder  60 X 47mm tubes
Heating  180,000 litre straw insulated seasonal store, 90X58mm tubes + 7 sqm flat collectors, 1 kW VAWT, 3 kW heatpump plus Walltherm gasifying stove
ringi
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2016, 01:53:04 PM »

Incoming temps from the ground loop started at 14 deg this year and rapidly dropped to 11 deg where they are now. Last season they dropped to 8 deg at the end of March but rose to 10 deg by May when the heating shut it self down.
Roger

Not that much better then running an air source pump in the day time.
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Mikel
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2016, 02:10:41 PM »

It would be nice if someone with an ASHP has some data to post.
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DonL
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2016, 03:14:56 PM »

Your wish is.....
"After two winters. a quick report on my ASHP performance.
9kW Panasonic Aquarea, three bed bungalow, heating only with over size radiators. Maintaining 17C background with a log fire most evenings.
First winter 1401.5kWh
Second winter 1149.5kWh
Excellent controllability and comfort. No faults/problems.
Very happy."
This year I've raised the background temperature to 18C in response to She. The system has just managed to maintain that without changing the control parameters.
Consumption so far this winter is 618 kWh so seems consistent with previous years
Don
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Schuco solar hot water - 3300kWh/annum, 16 BP 4175N PV panels - 2.8kWp, log burner and back boiler and 18 Ying Li 235 PV panels - 4.2kWp, 42kW ground mount PV, 9kW Panasonic ASHP, 40kWh Nissan Leaf
MR GUS
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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2016, 03:35:50 PM »

Thanks for the update Don!
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