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Author Topic: Expanding foam...  (Read 6071 times)
ianh64
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« on: May 03, 2014, 06:34:00 PM »

Not really an insulation question, but thought i would get a better response than bodges section.

Ive recently smartened up our utility cupboard. This has a PVC door with small side panel.

As part of the smartening up, I lifted a bit of lino like floor and exposed some ceramic tiles beneath. I had originally decided to insulate and raise the floor, but I've temporarily reverted to puttig down the big coir mat that we had as it still looks very smart.

The problem is that the PVC door was partially sitting on the lino floor and was supported with one wedge of plastic. So i have about 7mm gap under the door and, by some of the grit/soil that was at one end, part of this probably extends to outside under the step.

Question is: how structural and water resistant is expanding foam?

I am thinking of laying DPC beneath door and injecting expanding foam into gap above. So this needs to support some of weight of door (as i probably cannot put wedge back in) and will probably have some exposure to damp from outside.

Other than expanding foam being worst substance known to man, I just need to know if expanding foam is up to the job and will provide some support and not bring in the damp.
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sunandwindy
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2014, 07:42:04 PM »

Hi,

First you need to know there are two types of expanding foam. The more popular one expands and keeps expanding pushing anything in its way and buckles door frames. The other type expands then stops when it hits anything, ideal for door frames.

As for structural... If your trying to hold a building together, perhaps expanding foam is not ideal. Now as an example, I'm not saying its correct, however I recently fitted a new oak door frame in a brick wall. The frame was positioned and held with wooden wedges, then fixed with 'frame fixing' screws, then the gap filled with foam (the second type), then the outside rendering brought up to the frame, and similar inside.

Many others will give further advice Smiley
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JohnS
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2014, 08:11:31 PM »

Can you put in new wedges at either end to support some of the weight and foam for the rest?
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ianh64
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2014, 08:24:30 PM »

I probably can but wont know until i do it. I used the term 'wedge' quite loosely. What came out was certainly wedged in, but i don't think it was wedged shape, possibly more of a series of plastic slithers that were slid in until nothing else could be slid in.

I suspect, if i tried the same, everything will disappear up inside the extruded base of the door frame and i will never be 100% sure that its supporting what it needs to. Hence, thought of filling the gap with filler as i hoped to spread the weight across the width of the opening.

How do i know what type of expanding foam i might be buying. Used it once before to seal around some internal pipe work and was oblivious to its ability to buckle things.

How does it handle moisture. I will probably be unable to seal/render the outside after its expanded. Might be able to get some cement in though before injecting, but if im doing that, i may as well use cement from the outset.
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daserra
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2014, 09:43:21 PM »

Hi,

First you need to know there are two types of expanding foam. The more popular one expands and keeps expanding pushing anything in its way and buckles door frames. The other type expands then stops when it hits anything, ideal for door frames.

As for structural... If your trying to hold a building together, perhaps expanding foam is not ideal. Now as an example, I'm not saying its correct, however I recently fitted a new oak door frame in a brick wall. The frame was positioned and held with wooden wedges, then fixed with 'frame fixing' screws, then the gap filled with foam (the second type), then the outside rendering brought up to the frame, and similar inside.

Many others will give further advice Smiley


Not me, that's exactly how I fit windows, stops thermal bridging/black mould around the window too.
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Rammed earth/ytong PassivFrankenHaus.
In the hills in Southern Portugal.
Borehole, on-grid.
Home made pool solar.
sunandwindy
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2014, 08:49:47 AM »

From a well known supplier fixitsecure!

First 'Expanding foams' as they 'expand'
No Nonsense Expanding Foam Hand-Held 750ml
Product Code: 75470
No Nonsense Expanding Foam Gun Grade 750ml
Product Code: 87934

Next 'fixing foams' which expand, then stops once it makes contact with something, ideal for door and window frames
Dow Insta Stik Expanding Foam Grab Adhesive Hand Held
Product Code: 57578
Insta Stik Expanding Foam Grab Adhesive 750ml
Product Code: 72793

If you go for gun grades, you can get Silverline guns on eBay quite cheaply.
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daserra
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2014, 11:55:19 PM »

Guns are a no-brainer. No need to clean out the tube between uses, just scrape off excess at the tip on next use. Never wander aimlessly around searching for somewhere to use up the rest of the tube again !
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Rammed earth/ytong PassivFrankenHaus.
In the hills in Southern Portugal.
Borehole, on-grid.
Home made pool solar.
stannn
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2014, 12:04:44 PM »


This is a neat little video on cleaning your gun.
Stan
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daserra
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2014, 07:47:19 PM »

I never ever clean mine. Just leave the can on till it's empty and you have a new one to fit. Never dries up even after months. I just make sure I screw in the adjuster wheel so it can't go off in the van (again)  facepalm
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Rammed earth/ytong PassivFrankenHaus.
In the hills in Southern Portugal.
Borehole, on-grid.
Home made pool solar.
ianh64
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2014, 10:05:38 AM »

Yesterday i was in tinkering mode and one of the minor jobs tackled was wedging the base of the door frame and straightening the door to stop it catching, made worse as i wedged one end of the frame.

Anyhow, I'm happy that its about as good as its going to get without a new door which isn't going to happen. However, i forgot to put some DPC below the frame and as wedges now in place, its going to be difficult to do a good job of retrofitting a strip and reluctant to try and remove/refit wedges as I'm short of them now and one needed cutting to fit.

So, if i just fill the gap with a fixing foam without DPC, is this going to be an issue? It never had DPC before, but then, until removing the vinyl tiles, it didn't have quite the same gap beneath. But there are still ceramic tiles beneath the door frame.

A bit if history. The base if the door is about inch below DPC and technically, i think this area was once outside the house and this area was once fuel store and boiler cupboard that, i guess when GCH was installed, became redundant so an outside door was added and area used as a cold utility area. I have now tidied things up and put 4" celotex & plasterboard on outside wall and at some point plasterboard the rest and put small kitchen units/sink in. Initially will keep floor the same, ie coar mat and concrete but may eventually screed and raise and insulate in some way, possibly with small zone of electrical ufh from solar pv. Otherwise, only heat is spill from GCH boiler in separate room behind a double vented door.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 11:06:03 AM by ianh64 » Logged
ianh64
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2014, 09:35:50 PM »

Thinking about this (plus a gun) from local screwfix. But worried about earlier comments on bending frames even though fixing frames is mentioned in screwfix reviews. No mention of separate framefixers in their product range that i can see.

Also, if i fix a plastic pipe in a hole with this, once cured, can i easily slide the pipe out of the hole?

From what i have seen of the door frame, i expect all windows in house not to be sealed to the wall other than via a plastic strip and silicon bead. Don't think previous occupier had much attention to detail when she had her windows fitted. I guess that filling voids with this stuff will be good for insulation.
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