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Author Topic: Fork Lift batteries -worth buying?  (Read 18017 times)
Bob
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« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2008, 07:18:37 AM »

Hi Billi

In an ideal world, and depending on the starting condition of the cells you need to charge at between the C10 and C20 rate.  To explain.  If the battery is a 600Ah then the C10 is one tenth, ie 60A, and the C20 is one twentieth, ie 30A.

If the condition of the batteries is poor then start low and build it up to C10 rate.  Most commercial battery chargers, the sort that companies use to charge their forklifts, have quite complex sensing circuits for battery condition and timers to regulate the speed and depth of the charge.  Their are various periods in the charge cycle such as "bulk" and "float".

If you are just intending to run an engine and an alternator then you are limited to something between 30 and 60A.  It is possible to get vehicle alternators that do more or less but they are rare and expensive (unless anybody knows different?)

It is possible to use more than one alternator from the same engine to give 30A, 60A 90A etc.

Then you have the idea of "equalisation".  This is where you try to make the difference between the individual cells as small as possible.  Preferably less than 0.01v.  For a 24v battery you would normally  try to charge it until the voltage (under charge) was about 32v and hold it there for several hours.

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billi
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« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2008, 08:48:10 AM »

thanks bob


now i understand it better 




cheers billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Smooth Hound
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« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2008, 12:22:54 PM »

My transit alternator is 70 amp, if thats of any assistance, not too dear either if i remember rightly. you could even get one from a scrappy
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billi
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« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2008, 06:28:05 PM »

hi scrappy


i need 24 volt version  they are about 150 euros new on ebay 

cheers billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
camillitech
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« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2008, 09:00:08 PM »

Hi Billi,

any standard, car, lorry, and even standard marine altenator will NOT charge up you batteries fully. It does not matter how many amps it says on the tin or how many belts are driving it, the regulator will stop it charging when it reaches a certain voltage (which is way too low for your battery bank) it does not matter weather it's a bosch, lucas, nippondenso, hitachi or wopping great CAV they are designed to charge up starter batteries and unless you have a more sophisticated (expensive) regulator you will never get the best out of your battery bank. As rob says you need either a 3 stage, bulk, absorbtion, float charger or even better 4 stage that will have an equalization facility, your inverter/charger will probably do this but no standard altenator will do this.

Good luck, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
billi
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« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2008, 09:49:41 PM »

paul

my mx 60 solar charger will take car of the four stage charging including equalization (still have to find out more about this)   as well will my my combi inverter/charger

just need a spare generator to the one i have because donot like the idea  beeing without juice  like the others when national grid breaks down  Grin

thanks again for the input


bob by the way thanks again for your C10 and C20 coments i think i never understood that right so i think i overcharged my last battery a crab gel one by missunderstanding   i thought C20 ment double the Ampere

cheers billi

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
camillitech
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« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2008, 10:13:20 PM »

paul

my mx 60 solar charger will take car of the four stage charging including equalization (still have to find out more about this)   as well will my my combi inverter/charger

just need a spare generator to the one i have because donot like the idea  beeing without juice  like the others when national grid breaks down  Grin





Sounds like a good plan to me Billi  Wink

Cheers, paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
billi
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« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2008, 10:22:40 PM »

cheers paul


really i just want to play a bid..... and train myself for worst cases , just to learn  .....

found some pigs nearby  have to get two or three so lovely and intelligent   
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
camillitech
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« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2008, 06:10:58 AM »

cheers paul


really i just want to play a bid..... and train myself for worst cases , just to learn  .....

found some pigs nearby  have to get two or three so lovely and intelligent   

I look forward to reading your posts about getting your genny to run on pig plop  Grin Grin Grin Grin
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 06:20:42 PM by Ivan » Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Darren8512
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« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2008, 08:52:12 PM »

Hi just fonud this on E-Bay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DB-12V-Battery-Desulfator-extend-lifespan-Optimizer_W0QQitemZ350026247129QQihZ022QQcategoryZ15329QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But it`s from Taiwan  and it`s max seams to be 200ah

Darren
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PEMTEK
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« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2008, 09:20:37 PM »

Alot of the new alternators are controlled by the engine ECU.

I believe the alternators have a load output so the ECU can measure what the current output is and also an input to control the output power. If a gadget was made this could be used to get a better charge if desired.

Several people on this forum are capable of making a controller to acheive this if more information was gathered about the control method.

Phil
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Bob
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« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2008, 07:41:36 AM »

DC motors make great battery chargers.  Phillips used to use them on some of their washing machines.
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« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2008, 02:21:22 PM »

Bob, I finally got round to buying an sg meter and some interesting facts :- each of my cells read slightly higher than 2 volt and yet each cell has a specific gravity of between 1.225 and 1.150 ie showing discharged ?

You mentioned earlier about adding acid, is this a classic case of requiring that acid, ie without charging occuring and cell voltage of 2 plus volts, can I now add acid until the reading is 1.280 or thereabouts, what do you think?. interesting though, that the acid has disappeared in the first place, presumably some has disappeared into the grey strip at the bottom of the cell?

Anyone know what happens to the storage capacity when there is a week acid solution?
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camillitech
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« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2008, 05:19:07 PM »

Bob, I finally got round to buying an sg meter and some interesting facts :- each of my cells read slightly higher than 2 volt and yet each cell has a specific gravity of between 1.225 and 1.150 ie showing discharged ?

Hi OB,

I have three hydrometers (one of which cost 30 Shocked) and :- I'm quite obsessive about checking my battery banks and my neighbours. I also work on a ferry and have to check and record the SG of 5 battery banks weekly (for which we have 3 hydrometers) the one thing I can say with any certainty is that they all read different. In fact the 30 tells me my batteries are flat when they are equalizing Roll Eyes so I would be more concerned by variation than actual figures and from your readings I would be concerned Undecided but like I say I am a bit obsessive about my batteries. I really should get out more!

Good luck, Paul
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 08:03:31 AM by camillitech » Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Bob
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« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2008, 07:02:04 AM »

I agree with Paul about hydrometers.  Every single one gives a different reading.

If you have the gray stripe then you have lead sulphate that has dropped off the plates.  I have the same.  If my old chemistry lessons remain in the addled brain then it goes something like this:

When the battery discharges some of the sulphate (SO4-) ions come out of solution and stick to the plates as PbSO3

The other O atom combines with two H+ ions and forms water.

Charging reverses most of this but not all of it.  The chemistry of lead and oxygen is complex.  There are many lead oxides and some of them cannot be changed back.  You get a stripe.

I have jst found this useful little diagram


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