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Author Topic: Proven 6 springs  (Read 10645 times)
jeffyorks
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2014, 09:08:04 AM »

You can work out how strong you need to be  Grin

Spring length 960mm preloaded to 1006mm +/-

1.15N per 1mm of elongation from rest plus 50N initial load


See - its not that much at the beginning. You only have to pull it about 60mm.

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 09:09:37 AM by jeffyorks » Logged
baker
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2014, 07:37:21 PM »

I just serviced my proven 6
after  3 years the nylon rods were badly worn
and the bolt bushes,
every thing else ok
so you need to keep a eye on them to save the springs,  the springs being noisy s a sign
you can see through the extended spring coil to get a idea of the wear at hub end
no point in having things flying off signofcross
I usually turn then round and get a extra 2 years but they were gone to far
it must be the last two years of good wind ?
my battery bank and light is working well
the bank at 14.5v after a 3 hour charge each day
so the inverter charger in a better option than a ups/
baker 
 

the rods are long enough   to cut and use in the 2.5 spring set
 
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CJL
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2015, 10:12:18 AM »

Hi,

Has anybody got a source for these rods, Kingspan are after £114 ex VAT for the refurb kit

Thanks
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camillitech
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2015, 11:22:20 AM »

Hi,

Has anybody got a source for these rods, Kingspan are after £114 ex VAT for the refurb kit

Thanks

Welcome to the forum CJL,

 I fecked about for years bodging mine using compressed air line, new bolts and bits of metal. All great fun and gave me nine years without spending a penny. Bought a new spring set a couple of months ago and was staggered by the difference in output, worth every penny.  Hugh's blog give some excellent refurb tips though http://scoraigwind.co.uk/2012/03/servicing-the-6kw-proven-on-scoraig/ My old 2.5 with the latest carbon fiber blades and a new spring set has seen over 4kW at times and regularly maintains 3.2kW.

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
CJL
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2015, 12:07:32 PM »

Thanks Paul, I have read Hughs post regarding the service and taken all of his tips for replacement washers and bushes, this year is the first time I have seen talk of the rods so to be honest I don't know if they are worn or not.

The output from my Proven 6KW has been fairly consistent between 5000 and 6000 per year over the last 6 years.

I'll be taking it down for a service in the next couple of months so I thought if I could get the rods cheaply enough I would have them on hand.

Did you replace the springs completely?

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camillitech
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2015, 12:26:57 PM »

Thanks Paul, I have read Hughs post regarding the service and taken all of his tips for replacement washers and bushes, this year is the first time I have seen talk of the rods so to be honest I don't know if they are worn or not.

The output from my Proven 6KW has been fairly consistent between 5000 and 6000 per year over the last 6 years.

I'll be taking it down for a service in the next couple of months so I thought if I could get the rods cheaply enough I would have them on hand.

Did you replace the springs completely?



Hi CJL,

yes, I've just replaced the complete set, mine were the earlier pressed stainless yolks so I wanted the forged ones as they'd cracked several times over the years. I've a feeling the 6's are forged anyway, I'd been lucky enough to 'beg, borrow or steal' parts in the past, as there are a few about here, so until recently I've never actually bought anything. I came into a bit of cash so 'splashed out' but like yourself I was thinking mine was due for a set of rods. Pretty sure that 'Jeffyorks' on here has the spec for the material and perhaps length of rod.

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
CJL
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2015, 03:52:54 PM »

Hi Paul,

I'm can't get my head around how the power output would go up by replacing the springs, I'm sure it does because you have witnessed it and also it mentions it on hugh's blog,

Surely the theory suggests that if the springs get shorter they pull the blades back giving a larger swept area and therefore harvest more power from the wind, what am I missing?
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smegal
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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2015, 04:59:55 PM »

Hi Paul,

I'm can't get my head around how the power output would go up by replacing the springs, I'm sure it does because you have witnessed it and also it mentions it on hugh's blog,

Surely the theory suggests that if the springs get shorter they pull the blades back giving a larger swept area and therefore harvest more power from the wind, what am I missing?

I think you are probably right. Simplistically, I'd bet that tired springs are probably coning sooner.
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When youíre thirsty, itís too late to dig a well. - Unknown
heatherhopper
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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2016, 12:57:08 PM »

An update of the Proven Springs.
It being that time of the year just had the Turbine down for it's annual bit of TLC. Having fitted a new set of springs (standard Proven issue) 26 months ago I was interested to see how they fared. Last year there was evidence of wear on the plastic inserts (both ends) and some distortion of the springs - most obvious on the outer springs - but seemed ok for another year. During Storm Desmond in December she shed a spring and then a further two in subsequent "storm" events - two "trailing" edge and one "leading".
This year replaced the missing springs (fitting new bushes etc in the process, note not badly worn) and fitted a new set of yaw rollers (having only rotated these previously) plus all the usual cleaning up slip rings, greasing bearings and renewing cover fasteners etc. There were no other issues evident although I plan to replace the ply inserts next year as a pre-emptive measure.
With a few years experience and a growing collection of spares I can now plan ahead a bit better. Question is what plan. This turbine has averaged just over 12,000 kWh per year for wind speeds averaging 8.5 mph (recorded at only 4m, tower is 9m) which may not be spectacular but she is also subject to high turbulence (some induced by nearby structures but equally down to natural features) - we rarely get a nice steady breeze.
Although a bit disappointed with the longevity of the springs I am resigned to this being the operational norm for this particular location. Hence the plan is to leisurely build up a full set of springs between services (renewing all the plastic inserts and bushes but recycling the least worn springs) and change them out every year. This seems the best way to make full use of the materials and also does away with all the faffing about with individual springs each service.
Does this seem a reasonable plan to those with some experience or a bit over the top? Relative to the value to us of the Turbine the cost is easily palatable.
A couple asides from previous comments on this and another thread:
Fitting new inserts is not difficult as suggested but more than one pair of hands is recommended!
I have tried to relate Turbine output to spring wear/absence but quite frankly with the nature of wind generation this is a bit of a waste of time. Whatever the effect, and even if it is measurable instantaneously, it will not be evident in extended data unless the whole thing is sagging to the point of imminent collapse!
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Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
heatherhopper
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 11:29:37 AM »

Another quick update on this topic.
Annual Turbine mothering completed last month - three springs gone this year. Had already made up a new set of springs in-house with "alternatively" sourced springs and pre-tensioners.
Using all older style brackets (with multiple holes) I decided to set up using the third hole at the blade end bracket (usually the fourth I think) as this seemed the better fit. I think this will give marginally lower output but may provide less stress on the core. Anyone experimented with these settings and have I invited disaster? No really testing wind since the overhaul so a bit early to assess any difference. Will be interesting to see whether these "modifications" make any difference long term.
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Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
camillitech
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2017, 08:06:50 AM »

Hi HH,

think you may be right, perhaps lower output but longer life, be interesting to see how you get on.

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
heatherhopper
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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 12:23:01 AM »

Paul - I think I can stand some reduced output but it will probably difficult to assess how much I lose unless it is significant.

I'm most interested to see any improvement using different composition pre-tensioners. I do think these are critical.

Alternatively sourced springs and pre-tensioners plus a Kingspan set of bushes etc cost a bit less than a full made-up set so there is not a great financial saving doing it this way. Nearly cost me a medical bill for removing a pre-tensioner from my nostril though!

Also noticed that the bolt/bracket movement of the old assemblies I dismantled was very restricted. Same for the set I have removed this year. Enough I would say to induce momentary spring bend at the eyelet before extension under some conditions. Bushes etc were little worn again. Don't know what would cause this stiffness but I have made sure movement is free in the DIY set fitted this year.
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Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
heatherhopper
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2018, 12:58:14 PM »

Quick update.

Time of year for routine haul down and maintenance. I will probably regret this but have decided to leave be and see how she goes with the home-brewed spring set for another winter. Thus far the (albeit at a distance) signs are encouraging. There is no sign of the ominous stretch and bend at the eyelet ends I have seen on previous sets. Whether the different bolt configuration has made any difference is impossible to tell - neither low wind nor maximum output show any difference. It must be said, though, that this past twelve months has been similar to the preceding year with relatively benign winds (compared with the 2012-2016).

I have determined all this lying prone on the tower base with a pair of binoculars. Not exactly a thorough examination but I have no enthusiasm for climbing and such heroics. To inspect properly would require the hated Tirfor.

Far too early to make an objective judgement but I think the "alternative" pre-tensioners and/or springs may be the way to go.
Can anyone spot anything I have missed from the photo? The ply inserts aside as they are an overdue item and will be done next time.




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Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
Scruff
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2018, 01:06:07 PM »

Hi Heather,

You can find one of the Proven founders and designers here > Clicky
Ask for Quentin.

Spring cleaning in Autumn...good thinking!  ralph
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heatherhopper
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2018, 02:54:56 PM »

Scruff
I always start my spring cleaning in spring. There is always much to be considered and all this very necessary musing takes time. Unfortunately summer comes along and distracts with musings of it's own. Hence the delay in actually doing anything but at least I can tell myself that, in autumn, it is too late to make a start (bad weather and all that) and it should wait until next year. No idea what I do in winter. This is the cycle of life, isn't it?


I know of the organisation - very adaptable. Nearly had them supply a wind interface a few years ago but I went for a WBPB to fit in with the engine room colour scheme (all yellow and red) and keep Biff happy.
My issue with the Proven is not the design (which undoubtedly has it's quirks but is probably more bomb-proof than most) but rather the quality of some of the spares I have used.
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Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
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