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Author Topic: Proven 6 springs  (Read 10998 times)
heatherhopper
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« on: May 14, 2014, 09:42:48 AM »

Does anyone have experience of the longevity of springs on a Proven 6. Appreciate that there are many variables that will have an influence with no two turbines being the same and that individual experiences might not be a very good indicator. Really just a ball park guesstimate I'm after. The springs in question do a lot of work.
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Ted
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 11:51:23 AM »

From memory the Proven maintenance schedule required them to be routinely replaced every 5 years.

Mine have been in place for over 8 years now and still seem perfectly OK (touch wood).
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 11:53:56 AM by Ted » Logged

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camillitech
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 12:32:49 PM »

I've a 2.5 in a very exposed area and I guess my first spring broke at five years of age, followed by on average another one every nine months. Luckily I've had a steady supply of freebies. There was a chap on the Green Building Forum who found a supplier who'd knock them up for 16 each and there's an excellent post on Hugh Piggott's blog of who to change the washers and bushes, with a list of part numbers and suppliers.

http://scoraigwind.co.uk/2012/03/servicing-the-6kw-proven-on-scoraig/

There's some more info on my blog too.

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/site-temporarily-unavailable/

Cheers, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Other-Power
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 04:40:38 PM »

They should last a while but they are stainless steel and subject to high cyclic fatigue and tend to shear where the spring fits over the cast end, could say its poor design.  They slap about in operation so if you could reduce this slapping with some sort of housing that might make them last longer.

Jon
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heatherhopper
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 11:17:38 AM »

Thanks for those experiences.
General concensus would seem to indicate a life of at least 5 years which appears to fit with Proven's maintenance recommendations (the only two manuals I've been able to lay my hands on specify "check" rather than replace at 5 years but probably poetic licence). I was a little concerned that we had lost two in fairly quick succession on a turbine that had only produced 26,000 in 6 years. The fact that more than half that total production has been in twelve months since we rescued it and relocated to this breezy hill might have some bearing on that though.
Failure mode is as described by Jon which is sort of reassuring. A protective housing - hmm, need to think about that and possible alternative supply.
Going to fit a full new set - think she deserves it.
The blogs with maintenance descriptions are excellent.

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Tombo
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2014, 11:35:50 AM »

See this thread:
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12742.15.html
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camillitech
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2014, 12:16:37 PM »


Cheers for finding that Tombo, I'd forgot all about that thread and that potential supplier. I now have two Proven's to look after so may be needing some soon, I'm down to my last spare.

Aye Jon, I think you're spot on with your diagnosis, I've never seen one break at any other point.

Cheers, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
jeffyorks
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 04:51:49 PM »

Hi all

We find spring failure is caused by the wear and consequent shortening of the plastic pretensioner inside the spring.

After a couple of years, depending on your site wind wise, they wear to a point at the ends eventually becoming too short to give the correct load and also allowing the spring to wag at the ends - a fatigue raiser.

We replace them with molybdenum impregnated nylon rod which simply does not wear due to its self lubrication.

We can supply springs and tensioners if required but whatever you do don't lose the eyes which screw into them !!

Cheers

Jeff
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heatherhopper
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 12:41:01 PM »

Jeff's comments appear to be valid. See photo of the only recovered broken spring - I think the wear on the platic is clear unless it is designed to taper at one end. This would fit with the spring "slap" that is evident at low speed.

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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 03:01:45 PM »

Plastic is not like that from new, my idea was a suitable sized bit of plastic pipe or conduit but along its length, snapped over the spring in question and maybe cable tied shut, would have to be a keen fit that still allowed the spring to do its job but stop it slapping. 

Justins turbine is still running and he is on a very windy site there.  These things are only springs after all and other suppliers out there must exist, I think Kingspan arnt changing the world for them now so maybe just put them down to a service item or try to stop them slapping.

Cheers
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heatherhopper
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2014, 10:46:21 AM »

New spring set just installed along with general service stuff. Spring price from Kingspan was not a lot more than "alternative" supplies considering that you get the full set already made up (bushes, brackets etc) and simply bolt on. All the plastic pretensioners were very worn with some of the springs looking about ready to shear. The two that had already detached were the "trailing edge" springs although some of the inner spring pretensioners were in a worse state. Will be interested to see how long these take to wear - no modifications made. I'll settle for another six years!

How to take the weight of the lifting gear



Shiny new set installed



Done and dusted



At least it was better weather than last time she went up

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Off grid AC coupled, 6kW Proven, 2.8kW PV, SMA SI/SB/WB Inverters, 4x576ah Rolls batteries @ 24v, 25kW Biomass Boiler, Wood Stoves, Spring/Well water. Sorry planet - I did try.
jeffyorks
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2014, 09:45:50 AM »

Hi all,

Been on hols so not replied earlier.

The plastic insert, when new, is longer than the spring, it is 625mm in total and this gives the spring pretension. The ends are not tapered, simply cut square.

This means that the spring coils do not touch each other. When they wear and shorten the coils close fully and are noisy eventually causing failure as previously described.

This loss of closed spring length also effects the the attitude of the blades by pulling them back further, 25mm at the hub is considerably more at the blade tip.

This effect may well make the machine start at lower wind speeds but the fatigue induced into the springs and resulting damage will be more expensive than the power gain, if indeed there is any.

Outside sleeving of the springs alone will not provide the correct configuration.

Jeff



« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 09:50:19 AM by jeffyorks » Logged
camillitech
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2014, 11:21:58 AM »


The plastic insert, when new, is longer than the spring, it is 625mm in total and this gives the spring pretension. The ends are not tapered, simply cut square.


So what is your trick for fitting the new insert Jeff  Huh I've really struggled to stretch the spring over a new insert, is there an easy way  Huh

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
jeffyorks
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2014, 11:51:28 AM »

Hi again,

I make them up in the workshop.

Screw one end fitting into the spring and trap it in a vice.

Insert the inner and extend the spring with one hand until you can screw the second fitting into the other end.

Or you can do it on the machine by securing on set of ends to the anchor points - just have the brake on.

Or you can hang one end onto one of the many overlong bolts on the head.

Jeff



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camillitech
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2014, 12:56:12 PM »

Hi again,

I make them up in the workshop.

Screw one end fitting into the spring and trap it in a vice.

Insert the inner and extend the spring with one hand until you can screw the second fitting into the other end.

Or you can do it on the machine by securing on set of ends to the anchor points - just have the brake on.

Or you can hang one end onto one of the many overlong bolts on the head.

Jeff





You must have strong hands Jeff, either that or I was trying to fit a long insert to a short spring  Grin

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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