navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: A little TLC for my forklift gems,  (Read 4051 times)
biff
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11878


An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« on: October 07, 2014, 11:55:26 AM »

Yes,
   This time I decided to peep in and see how the 60 cells were doing and ,Yes they are pretty low,just below the rim of the lead, Now I know that such terrible neglect should be punishable by flogging but all I can say is,I am improving. So today I sourced 30 ltrs of acid with the view to perking up their lives, The 30ltrs comes to 53euros delivered to the door,
     Of course this lavish gift only comes after a visit to a friend who has been working with batteries long before he formed his own company 32 years ago. His lecture did not fall on deaf ears and it was "give them a fair chance or be out of pocket big time"
    Then he showed me his distilled water machines which have been operating non stop for the past 16 years. Newer, more efficient versions are on the net for sale for round about 100.00 but his old ones work on just 100watt while the newer ones need 750 watt.The last time I topped up the cells,I needed over 50 ltrs and it cost me50 euros for 40ltrs Cry, I finished the job with my old standard rainwater.
   It is hard to know when you are winning but this bank has been going now for a good 6 years+ and hopefully it will live for ever, genuflect.
  So to anyone who is running off-grid and out of pocket buying distilled water all the time, A 100.00 investment in a machine which can deliver 5 ltrs a day might be a good idea,+ the machine can be located next to the bank during the winter and used as a background heater to keep the bank from freezing,
                                                                                                 Biff
Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
DaveSnafu
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 248


« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 12:00:12 PM »

Hi Biff, do not top up your cells with acid, use distilled water, if you use acid there is no where for the sulphate to go.
I bumblebeed a set of batteries doing this years ago.
Logged

Proven wt2500,24v batteries,running house,navitron solar thermal integrated tank, 10 x 210w eclipse italia pv, wbs,
biff
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11878


An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2014, 12:24:57 PM »

Thanks for the advice Dave.
                         However these cells have not seen acid for over 6 years so maybe they are ready for some, garden
                                                                               Biff
Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
DaveSnafu
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 248


« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2014, 12:40:49 PM »

My understanding is that distilled water turns to acid as it soaks up the sulphate from the plates during charging, if you put acid into sulphated cells the solution is too saturated to uptake more sulphate from the plates leaving it with no where to go.
I am sure there is a very scientific explanation, but it is beyond me......
Logged

Proven wt2500,24v batteries,running house,navitron solar thermal integrated tank, 10 x 210w eclipse italia pv, wbs,
biff
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11878


An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 01:07:27 PM »

Sounds like I need to study a bit more before putting the acid in the cells Dave,
                                        The advice I got this morning was to just cover the tops of the cells with about 5mm of acid and then check them every week for a while. I know that the distilled water turns to acid. Don,t worry I have no intention of destroying a bank that has performed so well down through the years. However this guy says that the acid in question is exactly the right stuff to put in them.
                                                                      Biff
Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
Countrypaul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1430


« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2014, 03:13:58 PM »

I thought the specific gravity of the electrolyte should be checked on a charged batttery to decide whether any acid was needed. No idea what to look for in terms of SG. and how much acid that translates to, but I can certainly believe adding too much acid would result in being unable to fully charge a battery.

Paul
Logged
biff
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11878


An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2014, 05:55:15 PM »

Right ,That does it,!!
                 Tomorrow morning I will order 2 yokes for testing the specific gravity, I should have got them today but I was so keen to get the acid that I let it go.
    Then suddenly the distilled water has become very expensive.I managed to get 40 ltrs for 50 euros last Autumn but this time they will not sell it in 20ltr drums,they want 8.50 euros for 5 ltrs,!!
   The distilled water machine starts looking more attractive every minute.My rainwater set-up has twice been contaminated by the salty air and debris,so i will rig it up again as soon as possible.
  I know it may sound a little strange that I have not invested in better battery technology before now but I am a great believer in the theory that "if a thing works well,leave it alone"
   Still,It is better late than never.
                                      Biff
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 09:12:16 AM by biff » Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
bxman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 635


« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2014, 07:20:39 PM »

The distilled water turns to hydrogen and oxygen and some evaporates. if you want to create some get a dehumidifier and save the water vapor that melts from the plates . much better than adding to the acid my friend   
Logged
knighty
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2789


« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2014, 07:22:09 PM »

yes, just add distilled water, not acid


over-simplified version of explaining it... when the batteries bubble, the water escapes but the acid does not :-)
Logged
camillitech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5404



WWW
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2014, 09:09:54 PM »

Can you actually buy distilled water anywhere these days?? I keep asking for it but it always arrives as deionized water  banghead http://www.distilleddeionizedwater.com/deionized-water-vs-distilled-water/ Rolls batteries clearly state that distilled water and not deionized should be used but I've yet to find a supplier in these parts. One of the reasons why I fitted these http://www.rolls-battery.com/content/r-recombination-caps-specifications I know Billy hasn't topped his batteries in years.

Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
biff
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11878


An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2014, 09:15:38 AM »

That was pretty good service,
                           Luckily I was awake and on my feet this morning when the courier rang to say he was 5 minutes away,and the goods were delivered on a mini pallet
                 to the front door at 8.40am.
                                                      Biff
Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
todthedog
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4204



« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2014, 10:59:25 AM »

My Dad used to hack the ice from the freezer and use that, not sure of its purity.
The  dehumidifier idea sounds a good one same principal.
Logged

'In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act'
DaveSnafu
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 248


« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2014, 12:25:18 PM »

Had a quick read of that link, Paul, as I understand it, deionised water looks a better choice for battery water as it has more "holes" in it to absorb the sulphate from the plates before reaching saturation, (not definitive scientific language).
All the salts and minerals are removed in the process, distilled water can still have organic compounds and oil carried over in the process.
Perhaps this is why upon inspecting cells in the local scrappys I have seen green oily looking fluid in old cells whilst wondering what could possibly live in that.
Biff, don't put the acid in till you have had a look around, ask google, I did, seems the concensus is that it will lead to early sulphation.
Logged

Proven wt2500,24v batteries,running house,navitron solar thermal integrated tank, 10 x 210w eclipse italia pv, wbs,
biff
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11878


An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2014, 12:48:47 PM »

 That is excellent advice Dave,
                       I ordered the yokes that test the specific gravity this morning and they should be here on Friday as well as the distilled water. There is not a lot wrong with the system so far. She herself has been ironing this  and it is not very sunny,it hardly took a shake out of the bank. So I will do my homework before charging off and doing something daft.
                                                                                             Biff
Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
camillitech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5404



WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2014, 02:22:36 PM »

Had a quick read of that link, Paul, as I understand it, deionised water looks a better choice for battery water as it has more "holes" in it to absorb the sulphate from the plates before reaching saturation, (not definitive scientific language).
All the salts and minerals are removed in the process,

Cheers Dave, I'll stick with the deionized,

distilled water can still have organic compounds and oil carried over in the process.
Perhaps this is why upon inspecting cells in the local scrappys I have seen green oily looking fluid in old cells whilst wondering what could possibly live in that.


more likely the result of local mechanic using tap water m'lud  whistlie seemed to be the done thing when I was a lad.

Biff, what is a 'yolk' is it something that actually works? I would love to have an accurate way of measuring SG.

Cheers, Paul
Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!