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Author Topic: Any one with Lithium Ion batteries on Sunny Islands that work ?  (Read 6149 times)
strie
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« on: November 23, 2014, 09:53:56 PM »

 I recently installed a ridiculous grid tied battery system using 4 Sunny island 4548 with 8 Ojai OES 2 lithium ion batteries wired in parallel each sunny island has 175 amp dc over current protection. The bank is 48v 408 Ah. We have a sunny boy 6000m with 4.8 kw worth of modules on the roof that is set up to Off grid. The intended purpose of this system was to Not export power back to the grid trying to reduce the customer's bill by about 50%, without doing a net metering agreement with the Hawaiian utility. We are fighting a losing battle out here! Anyway,the big loads are air conditioning, water heater, and clothes dryer along with an electric range. My battery bank is no where big enough to handle all those loads but I didn't sell the system, I just have to make the thing work without shutting down.

The customers come home around 4:30 p.m. and turn on the air-conditioning and start the laundry, I set the The Sunny island to allow grid power to answer the load demand at about 7 Kw. I also set the grid charge start to charge the batteries when the Soh drops to 75% and stop at 90%. I have been trying different settings just to get the system to stay on. I originally set the Bat chrg current to 204 amps, and the Sunny islands were shutting down with DC over voltage error. I reduced the charge current to 40 amps and that has helped some. But as the batteries reach about 95% Soh, the inverters are shutting down with the same error code.

The logistics on trouble shooting this system are a nightmare. The home owner wont allow me access during the day and I have to wait until the can schedule a day off work to get to the system. Then communication by cell phone is almost impossible because of the lack cell phone reception.

I noticed that the battery voltage reading on the display is about .3 v higher than my meter. I do not have all the battery cables exactly the same length and I know that I should change them but I am wondering how effective it will be in solving the problem with the DC over voltage error. I read in the Sunny island manual that i can alter the resistance of the leads with some trickery, it seems easier to just redo the cables.  Again I am hesitant to believe that this will solve the problem.


 I still don't fully understand the charging voltage parameters. If anyone has any suggestions or resources, I could certainly use the input.
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biff
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 10:53:06 PM »

Hello Strie,
               And welcome to the forum. Let me say that your install looks very neat and professional. I wish I was able to help you sort out your problem but don,t worry there will be someone much better informed than me along shortly. Good luck
                                             Biff
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rogeriko
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 11:09:20 PM »

You are supposed to be capturing the solar energy all day so why set the grid to come on at 75%. Those batteries are not lead acid cells they are supposed to be discharged down to 10%, in fact they are warranted down to 10% for 2500 cycles. Let the batteries run all the way down at night to 10% then they will charge back up to 80/90% the next day without overvoltage problems.  They should be able to take all 4.8Kw of charge all day. I have not installed those specific batteries but from reading about them that's how they are designed to work.
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knighty
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 12:27:49 AM »

do the inverters know they're connected to lithium iron batteries ?

min volts should be 40
max should 57.6



also, maybe the inverters are charging at the same time the solar is putting power in, and that's causing the problems ?
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dhaslam
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 12:32:01 AM »

"big loads are air conditioning, water heater, and clothes dryer"

Would it be possible to use the  air conditioning system to heat water and dry clothes?  It must be a  fairly common situation in Hawaii.    

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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 05:58:36 AM »

Morning Strie and welcome,

how's your German http://www.photovoltaikforum.com/sma-sunny-island-6-0h-und-lifepo4-akkus-t88058.html 'Google translate' works on Sunny Iceland's too  hysteria

Cheers, Paul
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 07:21:09 AM »

"big loads are air conditioning, water heater, and clothes dryer"

Would it be possible to use the  air conditioning system to heat water and dry clothes?  It must be a  fairly common situation in Hawaii.    

That's an interesting point. I was reminded of a thread on here a year or so back (can't find it) which mentioned heat pump water heaters which were getting popular in the US. So they heat the water whilst cooling their environment.

Here's an example, no recommendation, association etc etc just the first hit I got when searching.

Mart.
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Tinbum
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 09:10:35 AM »

To be honest I really don't see how the system can be expected to work with so few batteries.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 09:46:37 AM »

Hi strie,

I am installing the latest sunny island 6 on our own community project, to replace our present battery only charging and 3.7kWinverter system. I have 1300ah 48v GEL batteries.

The last 6 months I have been looking into the deepest working parameters/recess of the sunny islands, as here in France I am not allowed to connect it to the main Grid as the Authorities do not allow connection.

Firstly I really do think that your batteries are struggling at just 408ah storage, and as you say those SI's can throw 100amps DC each at the batteries. Shocked

On my SI Installation manual SI80H-60H-IA-en-20 | Version 2.0 page 67 to 79 there are default lithium-ion settings and alternatives that can be set in Expert Mode.
I thought these 10 pages were odd, as they occurred in the General Installation Manual as a bit of a squeeze in after thought.

I will allow the SI to AC couple with new PV installations, but all my 9kW of DC charging direct to my batteries will be retained, so I will not rely totally on the SI for charging my batteries. And use a separate battery DC 70a charger that is fed from the main grid as my standby when the SI calls for the generator when the batts are low.
 
Why? I cant put my finger on it, but not sure if the SI can charge batteries and supply full loads all at once?.

Sorry probably not helped you.

What do SMA have to say?




    
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 09:49:41 AM by clockmanFR » Logged

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clockmanFR
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 09:58:54 AM »

Tinbum,
Unfortunately SMA use the concept of a reduced capacity battery bank as one of the reasons for using a SI. And as I have mentioned before, I am very weary about to much reliance on battery manufacturers data.

After years of experience my 1300ah 48v are just about comfortable with my present 3.7kw inverter system, so if I got in another big 6kW standard Inverter, then I was going to have to double my battery Bank.  faint

So Cost effective wise the SI looked like it ticks the boxes, but then I am still retaining my 9kW of direct DC battery charging.
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Tinbum
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2014, 10:17:57 AM »

clockmanFR

I agree and I can understand the concept of a small bank that is used just to reduce the load from the grid but its not going to work with Air con and other high wattage items that are on for a long time. A kettle fine or maybe a domestic Iron or possibly a modern washing machine. It all depends on application.

I struggle with my battery bank at 1300Ah and have had it turned off for the last few days. (I'm just about to do some big changes and swap the 6v cells for 2v.)
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 10:55:19 AM »

Hello

.... the battery specs  here sound very good http://oesoptimizedenergystorage.com/pdf/OES_2_24v_and_48v_brochure_8-14-14.pdf

I agree with Roger   , to cycle them   much more deeper
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Tinbum
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 11:00:14 AM »

Yes I've just been reading that- they do look good. Interesting that they are 24v or 48v- I was trying to puzzle out how the OP had them connected.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 02:04:12 PM »

.... What puzzles me , is the small  PV ,   in relation to the rest of the costs /gear  wackoold  facepalm



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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Tinbum
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 02:15:08 PM »

.... What puzzles me , is the small  PV ,   in relation to the rest of the costs /gear  wackoold  facepalm

Hawaii -lots of sun (but hot)?
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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