navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Packaged batteries vs self-package  (Read 3666 times)
charlieb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


« on: December 04, 2014, 02:26:56 PM »

Hello,
I'm getting way ahead of myself - caravan only has 2 1/2 walls so far - but I can't resist thinking about future leccy set up.   I'm wondering what the price difference would be between
  • A: sourcing all the kit for a basic electrical set-up with batteries and reasonably simple input of either gennie or pv  (say 500W output, with maybe 3 kWh storage?);  and
  • B: purchasing an all-in kit such as these http://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/generators/cat830706#category=cat830706&brand=firefly   , which would presumably be much simpler and with some sort of warranty. List price is 1,300 inc VAT, although it would need an extra battery pack

Yes I'm a geek about this stuff, but getting into the minutia of pb acid battery management isn't top of my wish list of 2015.  Incidentally I came across Firefly a few years ago and was v impressed.  (Which makes me pleased - and surprised - to see them for sale in Screwfix which seems to stock plenty of cheap rubbish (along with the good stuff).)
Logged
knighty
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2789


« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2014, 04:50:57 PM »

looks to me that for 1300 you get an inverter/charger and a battery in a nice box


you should be able to do the same (or better) for 300 I would think
Logged
charlieb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2014, 05:22:20 PM »

Thanks Knighty. Exactly the sort of reply I was after!  (I don't blame them for the mark-up though.  It's difficult to know where to start with this stuff).   
Logged
clockmanFR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3584



WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2014, 06:01:37 PM »

Yea I thought about re-packaging an inverter charger from a UPS, but by the time you have done the case got the switches and cabled it all together in a wizzy lookin case, costs soon mount up.

They supply a new Sealed lead acid at 12v 40ah. Yep 1300 is about right.
Logged

Everything is possible, just give me TIME.
skyewright
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1763


« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2014, 02:30:53 PM »

They supply a new Sealed lead acid at 12v 40ah. Yep 1300 is about right.
For something that Firefly themselves rate as allowing just over two & a half hours running time at 100W drain[1]...

[1] Based on the PYX/800/250 column of the table on p24 of the PDF manual which is available via the Screwfix link.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 02:35:35 PM by skyewright » Logged

Regards
David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
charlieb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 12:11:21 PM »

Sorry. I've got lost on the last two posts.   Is 1,300 about what I'd pay if I was to do it all myself, or a reasonable price for a packaged system?   And yes, 2 1/2 hrs at 100W would be just about alright.  (Although I guess battery systems are like forklifts.  You always want something a bit bigger than what you have...
Logged
clockmanFR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3584



WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 12:23:53 PM »

I have shown this before......

About 150, APC UPS 1500va about 1000w, its 24v with an internal modification so I can feed outside batteries. It self starts. Please take care in side the UPS case, even when switched off as those internal Capacitors can still hold a lethal voltage

2off second hand 105ah 12v gel batteries, about 150. The other 2 are for switching over to.

Just add cables and plugs.



* P7280228a.jpg (87.99 KB, 635x476 - viewed 501 times.)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 12:25:45 PM by clockmanFR » Logged

Everything is possible, just give me TIME.
billi
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8920



WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 12:25:43 PM »

Sorry , cannot comment much , cause link is not working for me ...

But  it does not sound much what you need .....

Surely small PV battery Inverter ideas are more dearer then bigger systems  but  1300 GBP (ex Vat)   its about the monney one has to spent per kWp PV   for off grid material

billi
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 12:28:54 PM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
ilovethesun
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2015, 08:40:31 PM »

I have shown this before......

About 150, APC UPS 1500va about 1000w, its 24v with an internal modification so I can feed outside batteries. It self starts. Please take care in side the UPS case, even when switched off as those internal Capacitors can still hold a lethal voltage

2off second hand 105ah 12v gel batteries, about 150. The other 2 are for switching over to.

Just add cables and plugs.
Hi clockman
IS the UPS/inverter wired into your French consumer unit (what sort of connection?) and how are you charging the batteries?
Is it cheap to get hold of those batteries in France or did you source them in the UK?
Thanks
Logged
clockmanFR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3584



WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 10:02:48 AM »

Hi ilovethesun,

The UPS shown in my Pic was just used in an emergency for powering the fridge and freezer. Its a stand alone job with the normal plugs going int an extension lead from the UPS. I have a few spare batteries from my collection that our not as good as they should be, ie when they are charged and left for a week the holding charge is below 12.90 volts each, But they are good enough for emergency use.

I have had up until recently a UPS APC 5000, 3.7kW, 48vdc inverter running stuff in the house, that is hard wired to a 10mm/2 cable that runs 140m up to the house where it comes out near my main Consumer units where I have change over switches.

The changeover switches are Kruas & Naimer, the Rolls Royce of changeover switches, from fleebay. These have 3 positions, On, cenral OFF, and ON, so EDF, Off, Eco. The switches are also 2 pole as you need to switch the neutral over as well, that simple in France because the regs state that all MCBs and protection must be 2 pole and all sockets, max 4, must be on spurs only. Ring mains are not allowed here..

Regards Batteries, No they are not sourced in France, I normally, sorry used to get them in the UK from folk on fleebay, like these.... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301497611435?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT  these are 38kg each.

Or this chap, but be carefull, do double readings to make sure the 12v jobs are above 13.20v. He gets then from an approved scrappy in Erith Kent somewhere and is just a middleman. ......
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERSAFE-12V-170AH-Batteries-FOR-12V-24V-48V-Bank-Solar-Wind-Turbine-Inverter-/121473827351?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item1c48678217  these are about 54kg each.

I have a few inverters that I will now sell as my new all dancing SMA Sunny Island 6, (AC coupling) has taken over all duties. genuflect
I have 2off those APC 5000 48v input that are wired up for instant use, probably keep one just in case, 2 new chinky 2kW inverters 48v, and that emergency APC 1500, 24vdc input.
 






* P8290881a.jpg (106.92 KB, 819x614 - viewed 313 times.)

* P2060352a.jpg (105.36 KB, 538x717 - viewed 330 times.)
Logged

Everything is possible, just give me TIME.
ilovethesun
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 07:04:02 PM »

Hi ilovethesun,

The UPS shown in my Pic was just used in an emergency for powering the fridge and freezer. Its a stand alone job with the normal plugs going int an extension lead from the UPS. I have a few spare batteries from my collection that our not as good as they should be, ie when they are charged and left for a week the holding charge is below 12.90 volts each, But they are good enough for emergency use.

Looks and sounds great! I bet that Sunny Island wasn't cheap..
How do you recharge the batteries for the stand alone UPS?
Logged
clockmanFR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3584



WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 07:18:19 PM »

I was charging those batts with a standard 12v (actually15v) 2 amp trickle charger, one at a time, when needed. Otherwise they went on my old 24v 400ah green house system for a good soak/charge. But that system has now gone and been superseded by the SI.

The SI6 was 2,460 gulp, but I did need the extra capacity, and the AC Coupling was the cream on the top.
Logged

Everything is possible, just give me TIME.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!