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Author Topic: Hyundai Gen Sets-Any Opions?  (Read 19724 times)
DaveF
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« on: December 15, 2014, 10:32:59 AM »

Hi all!

Our mains supply usually drops out at least twice each winter and I have a small (probably 3Kva) Honda petrol generator to keep the heating pumps and lights on when the power goes off. This genny is around 20 years old and a pain in the posterior to start so I'm toying with the idea of investing in a substantial diesel powered setup with auto start. (I have checked with an electrician and my incoming supply can be diverted though an automatic transfer switch without too much work)

I've even considered going to something as big as 10Kva so I could run the house as normal without getting the wife to switch off the washing machine, telling her not to cook or boil a kettle etc. I've looked at a few 1500rpm Hyundai diesel models and would consider the investment if I thought the genny would have a life time as long as mine! A model that I've looked at is Hyundai DHY11KSEm. How do you rate Hyundai gennys? Any help/opions welcomed.
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martin
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 10:54:13 AM »

Ok, where angels fear to tread............You're talking around 6k for the gennie, and probably several hundred squid for the extra electrics, so quite a few bob.........I think the question you have to ask is whether it is really worth having all that generating capacity sitting there unused for 99% of the year, just so 'er indoors can fire up the washing machine in a power cut. I've come to power-cut gennies from the other end, having spent time around boats and caravans, and am quite happy with 700 watts of inverter gennie to keep things like phone base stations, wifi, computers etc. running (we get frequent power cuts). You can obtain simple gas cartridge cookers (as favoured by many TV chefs) for a few quid to tide you over - and frankly microwaves, electric cookers and washing machines can go hang for the duration of the power cuts.
In your shoes I'd probably go for a "halfway house" solution - a propane converted 3kw inverter gennie (apparently much less liable to suffer the fuel problems suffered by infrequently used gennies), and the appropriate switching circuitry. It really is no hardship to do without electric kettles, microwaves etc for a short while - I see so many caravanners carting simply ginormously oversized generators, all so they can run a microwave for a few minutes (which then are grossly under-loaded for most of their lives)
Hyundai has an excellent reputation.........
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 11:01:37 AM by martin » Logged

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billi
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 11:51:23 AM »

Please  go ahead with a 6k   investment in a Generator idea !!!

Here is my suggestion
(sorry no direct weblinks  , but real figures! )

Quote
4000W 48Vpure sine wave solar inverter off grid with 60A MPPT solar charger
  for about 600
Quote
refurbished Traktionszelle Typ 4PzS620, 2V 620Ah
24 pieces   to get a 48 v battery about 1500
  and  nearly 4000 GBP left for  PV  or  about 6000 watt of PV


That would run a house  nearly all year round ..... and safes a lot of electricity costs  and heating water , for the same money like  your backupgenerator idea


Billi

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
going green
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 05:59:57 PM »

this would be cheaper

http://lowres.cartoonstock.com/environmental-issues-energy_saving-renewable_energies-renewable_energy_sources-generators-electricity-mfln2847_low.jpg

 whistlie whistlie
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2014, 06:11:58 PM »

I note the kVA and kW quoted for that  generator are the same numerically.  Rather unusual and so likely means one is incorrect?

Diesels engines operate far better if fairly well fully loaded.  80% is a typical recommended minimum for continued operation.

A 2kW kettle should present little problem, for a 3kW generator, with due consideration of inductive load starting if the generator is loaded further (all assuming the total running load is not exceeded).  Lower wattage kettles are avaliable.

I also doubt your 3kW generator is rated at 3kW continuously.  Rating may be kVA, maximum load in kW or rated load for contiuous running.  As you are aware, those ratings can be misleading to some as they are likely far greater than the real world output.  The output might only be 2.4kW resistive and perhaps that might be a maximum (not continuous) load.

You need to know your required loads and choose an appropriate generator size carefully.  Running washing machines, tumble driers and ovens is not a usual mode of operation for a simple power outage of relatively short duration.  Microwave ovens, with an efficiency of around 50%, are real luxuries if used regularly during power outages.

In short,  i don't think you would be making a particularly good investment by spending that amount of money unless outages were more often and of long duration, but only you know the real facts relevant to your particular situation.  Maybe you have already made you mind up to get a large diesel generator, but listing your specific needs (power, duration, etc, etc) might be good to get some suggestions to fit your actual situation.  Most homes with 10kW generators would be using them to charge batteries in an off-grid situation, but only as a standby for alternative intermittent energy sources.

Many petrol engines can be changed to LPG fuel.  A good, well serviced Honda engine should not present starting difficulty.  A new similarly rated machine might be a far better choice.  Peak electricity usage by most is likely little more than 10kW for most, perhaps double for some, but average usage of that power would lead to horrendous energy bills!  Sorry, but running such high power devices during a power outage is a totally alien scenario to me.
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Nickel2
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2014, 06:16:07 PM »

There are a lot of genny's on fleabay that may be cheaper...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=lister+quiet+generator&LH_PrefLoc=1&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlister+silent+generator&_nkw=lister+silent+generator&_sacat=0

N2
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
Nearly dead 24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
knighty
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 06:41:34 PM »

for a backup generator.... a petrol generator can also be converted to run on mains gas.... which means no refuelling the tank, or worrying about the fuel in the tank going stale!
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Mostie
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2014, 08:20:18 PM »

Check this guy out Knighty   facepalm

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2x Solis PV = 1.875 kW, Mitsubishi inverter heat pump. Yorkshire Boiler Stove.
Philip R
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2014, 11:48:48 PM »

for a backup generator.... a petrol generator can also be converted to run on mains gas.... which means no refuelling the tank, or worrying about the fuel in the tank going stale!

It can indeed run on mains gas, but connecting up a self converted generator to the domestic gas supply!!! The device has not been certified and therefore cannot be connected. A proprietory device can be but only by suitably qualified personnel.

Philip R
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knighty
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2014, 12:27:13 AM »

sorry, I meant buy a ready made mains gas powered generator

if you're going to the expense of buying a generator, might as well get a gas one ?
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DaveF
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2014, 12:05:13 PM »

Thanks for all comments given.

In reply to all who pointed out the lack of cost effectiveness-well I did know that already but with 2 kids under 4 in the house along with an elderly mother in law, I would give the investment careful consideration if I thought the generator would be their to prevent power outages for the next 25-30 years. I know the battery will need replacing, it will need test starting from time to time and some servicing but will it last?

In reply to other comments, there is no mains gas within 2 miles of my house and I already have 6.5kw of grid tied pv.

Also, I would like an autostart generator and I can't see a 3Kva set coping too well if the power goes off and it tries to auto start while the mrs or mother in law is boiling a kettle whilst the oven is on and the fridge and or chest freezer are both trying to run the compressor. Add central heating boiler and pumps and a small gen set doesn't meet the needs for auto start as all these aplliances in my home will continue to work should power be momentarily removed and returned. They may take up to 30 seconds to come on again but come on again they will do.

I'm just looking at worst case scenarios here.
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billi
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2014, 12:34:31 PM »

Quote
I already have 6.5kw of grid tied pv

Why not use this as your generator then  , with an offgrid Inverter and battery ?  And as well safe  money  during the year  because  you can  use PV  power  as well at night !

Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
knighty
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2014, 06:06:06 PM »

as much as I normally think it's a stupid idea to get batteries to use PV as grid backup.... if you're thinking of spending thousands on a generator you might as well spend it on batteries instead

if you're only ever used during a blackout, and kept fully charged the rest of the time, then they'll last for donkeys years (longer than you're generator I'd think)
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Ivan
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2014, 02:54:44 AM »

Don't try to replicate the conversion in Mostie's video - very dangerous, given how close the disconnected propane outlet is to the generator's exhaust!

You can buy a proper LPG regulator ('vaporiser') for about 40 - just feed it from the bottle, forget the water heater connections for small engines, and fit a venturi pipe into the existing carburettor, or butcher an existing carburettor (drill out the main jet and replace it with your LPG venturi) if you don't want to ever run on petrol, or buy an LPG mixer (=gas ring carburettor) for your small engine (about 20 on ebay).

You should be able to run natural gas through an LPG vaporiser and just alter the tuning to compensate.

I like propane generators, because even if you don't use them very often, they always start. Petrol generators on the other hand, always seem to have that sticky deposit in the float bowl, jets and tank if you don't run them for a while, and it will take you until the power comes back on to get the generator running!

I have a 1kW inverter that I can clamp onto the battery terminals of my car. Haven't needed to use it for years, but if you get stuck, it's quick and easy to set up and I can keep going as long as there's fuel in the car.
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al_uk
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2014, 10:36:29 AM »

I have a couple of power cuts a year so I was in the same situation this time last year. We had a new baby and I was working away at the time, so I needed something that my wife could operate. We had been running extension leads around the house and using a noisy building site generator, which wouldn't cut it if I wasn't around!

I chose to get a quiet running Honda EU20i inverter generator with a propane conversion and a trolley. I bought this new already converted. 1200

I then had a manual transfer/changeover switch put in, and have a buried SWA feed cable down to the shed with a 16A plug. The changeover switch is a Briggs and Stratton 100A with socket, rcd etc all in one 200 box. 500 ish total.

I bought 2 47kg propane bottles at 60 each and an auto gas changeover (as you see on catering vans) - 50 I think.

Each propane bottle will run the generator for a couple of weeks I think, if I switch it off for 8 hours at night.

The gen is stored in the shed ready to go with only a couple of actions needed to hook it up using quick connect gas couplings and start it. I have written instructions, and my wife and mother in law have tested them! They have no trouble starting this little generator.

This will happily run the whole house base load and anything that isn't in the kitchen. We have gas heating and cooking.

For more power, I could get a 2nd EU20i and parallel it up which would then let me run anything (but only one item at a time!) that is in the kitchen. The good thing about this is that when I don't need all the power I could run on only 1 generator. The alternative is to have a large generator which would end up idling inefficently most of the time.

There is the EU30is alternative which is electric start for added convenience.

When in use the cost of the propane alone is between 5 and 10 times the cost of mains electricity. This ignores all the purchase, installation and servicing costs. Propane is cheaper than petrol, and critically, I can leave the bottles outside for years and they won't go stale like petrol.

I think the cost of running a large diesel generator particularly at low loads will be significantly more than this. For this reason, I discounted the auto changeover option. You could still have an easy manual change over with a relatively small generator and remote electric start.

In one of my threads a couple of months ago, I ask about adding batteries to this system and making it work with my Solar PV. The conclusion so far is that this is high maintenance and expensive, and not worth it for a system that will only be used once or twice a year.

Hope this gives you a few data points to consider.
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10kW PV. Rainwater collection-14 IBCs. Custom Arduino based Immersun type PV diversion. HomeSeer home automation, Househeat/Conrad TRV radiator actuators + FHEM. SageTV
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