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Author Topic: Heat Pump in the Loft?  (Read 10442 times)
Paulh_Boats
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2015, 04:57:56 PM »

Andy,

Looks good. Very approximately how much is the hardware? We would want to extract from the Kitchen (via filter), Bathroom and En Suite.

Kitchen is awkward, but a 25 x 100 uPvc box section could be squeezed in next to a bedroom door jam. Kitchen also loses the greatest amount of heat as we cook with gas.

-Paul
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30 tube thermal,
2.3kW PV see:
http://www.solarmanpv.com/portal/Terminal/TerminalMain.aspx?come=Public&pid=17067

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Nickel2
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2015, 05:56:43 PM »

This any good? Perhaps it could be modified for your purpose; ie take the inlet from the kitchen ceiling, exhaust to the bedroom.

http://www.fixmyroof.co.uk/videos-and-guides/condensation-cure/piv-unit-system/

http://www.nuaire.co.uk/products/catalogue/residential/positive-input-ventilation-piv/drimaster-2000/

Watch the video or skip to 06:00 to see the unit. Nothing fancy, just a quiet fan ion a box. Extra insulation, ducting and vents could be bought cheaply at the local DIY store.

(I have no connection with the company at all, just found the video on Ewe-Chewb and looked for the water-mark link)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 06:45:10 PM by Nickel2 » Logged

1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
New (Old) 8S7P LiFe battery, 105Ah @ 26.4V
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
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Mostie
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2015, 06:00:29 PM »

this could be the chappy....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HRU100-Heat-Recovery-Ventilation-Condensation-1-2-3-or-4-Rooms-Complete-Kit-/251159375045
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Andyr
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2015, 06:15:06 PM »

The eb**y system is the one I got  Wink  Had to buy extra insulated ducting though. Its not the most efficient at 70%. As to the comments about moving heating about, sure it does but I expect some would be disappointed as to how much it does unless your house is very well insulated and sealed as you would want it on trickle most of the time. I seem to remember the in the TV Series "Its not easy going green" they didn't notice significant heat gains in bedrooms rooms with such a system.

Andy.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 06:16:57 PM by Andyr » Logged

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Paulh_Boats
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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2015, 06:28:46 PM »

Thanks Andy,

Systems have come down a lot. Agreed about bedrooms - we would want valves of sorts as 95% or more of the time extraction would waste energy.

Ideal system for us is fan-on-demand. e.g. when cooking, turn on boost and through an oil/dust filter extract from kitchen up to heat exchanger. Likewise for 10-30 minutes after a shower in bathroom/en suite.

Most of the kids have flown, one still at Uni, so just me and wifey rattle around our four bedroom house.

-Paul
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30 tube thermal,
2.3kW PV see:
http://www.solarmanpv.com/portal/Terminal/TerminalMain.aspx?come=Public&pid=17067

LED lighting in every room
NO tumble dryer, +370 kWh per year
unclefester
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2015, 06:33:47 PM »

I had explored the idea of ducting it from one end of the house to the other using an inline fan about 2 years ago but when I explored the idea on another forum I was told I'd loose all the heat into the attic via the ducting ? Pretty much scrapped the idea until the idea of using a heat pump occured to me - it would certainly be cheaper. Also the gentleman that referred to insulation insulation insulation we replaced all the glazing units as soon as we moved in however I have 9 inch solid walls any recommendations for external cladding everyone just wants to sell there product?

Thanks for all the replies so far.
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Nickel2
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2015, 06:47:04 PM »

Just updated my original post.

N2
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
New (Old) 8S7P LiFe battery, 105Ah @ 26.4V
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
Nissan micra Spirita   (Short range)
Andyr
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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2015, 06:49:45 PM »

Not sure you would need any valves if you was to use it intermittently. You would have say maybe 6m+ of insulated ducting going to internal celling grill which restricts the flow right down when setup. So my thinking is it would be no worse then having a vent in a window open when the system is switched off. I think it is debatable if the heat gains of such intermittent use is worth the effort, but you need to investigate further. You would obviously gain with air quality and less condensation.

Unclefester  I don't believe you would loose all the heat moving it with ducting/fan. Insulated ducting is cheap, then maybe cover it with extra loft insulation. It would be cheapish to do.

Andy
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 06:54:36 PM by Andyr » Logged

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Mostie
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2015, 10:46:19 PM »

By the way your heat pump will pish water everywhere when it goes onto defrost, and then when it restarts it will blow steam / water vapour through the loft.
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mike7
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« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2015, 01:44:56 PM »

For sure insulation, whether inside or out, would be the better solution if it's do-able for you. It isn't here - outside because the house is listed, and inside because my other half (aka the Resident Archivist) and I could not face the disruption, assuming we could find a contractor willing to work in the chaos.

None of the comments above critical of your idea are sufficient to scupper it completely, but it could be that trying to gather excess heat from your wbs by any means is not worth the effort. If insulation is not on, maybe you just need a heat source at the bedroom end of the house, available whether the stove is over-producing or not.  An AAHP has to be worth consideration.

On the issue of having the pump in the attic, people seen not to have taken on board the idea that once the air there cools below ambient, the whole roof will start to act as a heat exchanger. For example, a roof of 150m2 if just tiled over felt with a U-value of 4.5 would transmit heat at 675W for just 1C temperature drop, enough to deliver 1kW to the bedroom emitter without any ventilation.

Pumping slightly warm air into a room is going to take a lot of air to have any effect.  A heat recovery unit at 70% efficiency using exhaust air at say 26C and ambient 0C will deliver air at 18.2C, displacing the chilly room air at say 12C. With the quoted flow rate of 41l/s that differential of 6.2C amounts to a heat input to the room of 300W, steadily reducing as - or if - the room warms. At 15C the net heat into the room will be down to 150W.
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