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Author Topic: Half built Hugh Piggot turbine.  (Read 78761 times)
camillitech
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« Reply #240 on: October 03, 2017, 08:29:14 PM »

Put the wind up me just reading that Andy, took my right back to my Rutland days. Twas fine when I was in my forties but started to scare the carp out of me as I got older, despite safety harness and hard hat. Completely lost me head for heights now after coming down from that mast with legs like jelly.



Good luck, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
biff
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« Reply #241 on: October 03, 2017, 08:38:20 PM »

Well done Andy,
                  I lost my head for heights after an ear operation in my 30s but I found out that I could go up in the dark wearing a headlight.
   I guess it is a bit like a horse wearing blinkers,, he sees through two vertical slits straight ahead..Anyhow, it worked for me and I was comfortable enough with it.
                                                                          Biff
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #242 on: October 03, 2017, 08:56:59 PM »

That's the thing with the scaffold tower Paul, you have a platform to work on at the top rather than working of the pole like a linesman.

Cheers.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
camillitech
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« Reply #243 on: October 03, 2017, 09:13:36 PM »

Well done Andy,
                  I lost my head for heights after an ear operation in my 30s but I found out that I could go up in the dark wearing a headlight.
   I guess it is a bit like a horse wearing blinkers,, he sees through two vertical slits straight ahead..Anyhow, it worked for me and I was comfortable enough with it.
                                                                          Biff

I'll have to try that Biff, makes sense.
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
todthedog
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« Reply #244 on: October 04, 2017, 07:37:30 AM »

Used to scamper up trees as a lad.
Now even painting  at the top of a double ladder is done through gritted teeth. reindeer





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Tinbum
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« Reply #245 on: October 04, 2017, 10:49:59 AM »

Well done Andy,
                  I lost my head for heights after an ear operation in my 30s but I found out that I could go up in the dark wearing a headlight.
   I guess it is a bit like a horse wearing blinkers,, he sees through two vertical slits straight ahead..Anyhow, it worked for me and I was comfortable enough with it.
                                                                          Biff

I'll have to try that Biff, makes sense.

It certainly works- all psychological. I re-roofed my barn and found I could get on quicker as the night closed in.
Working on tall buildings, working on a scaffold is also easier on the mind if you start at the bottom and gradually work your way up day by day as the scaffold goes up rather than starting work at the top once the scaffold is all up. (don't think Ive explained that too well Huh).
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« Reply #246 on: October 04, 2017, 11:05:25 AM »

I know exactly what you mean, Tinbum.
                                Then there is this another one as well. I don,t half broadcast the fact that I am profoundly deaf on here and of course I am. I discovered years ago, that it was actually an advantage to be deaf in violent windy conditions. Noise distracts and interferes with the concentration. I am well aware that you do not hear the objects slipping and sliding or creaking and breaking and that you depend 100% on the visual but to be calm and noise free give you a massive advantage, it is just a pity that we don,t have another set of eyes in the back of our heads, Grin
 Perhaps wearing ear muffs would be another advantage.?
                                                                 Biff
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« Reply #247 on: October 04, 2017, 12:00:38 PM »

It also always 'scarier' coming down than going up.  eg stepping onto the ladder off a roof than stepping off the ladder onto the roof.
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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« Reply #248 on: October 23, 2017, 06:30:50 PM »

Well the WT took everything the storm Brain produced no problem, hope all turbineers are the same.

Here is a link to see a seriously large home brewed HP turbine featuring an axle from a 5 Ton Chevvy truck.  Looks like a beautifully made job.  Clockman would love it!

http://scoraigwind.co.uk/2017/10/16-foot-homebrew-in-wyoming/#comment-171871

Cheers.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
offthegridandy
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« Reply #249 on: December 24, 2017, 01:53:14 PM »

I'll stick this up here rather than start a new thread if that's OK!

Having now become totally hooked on WT's and having survived a few frights and hassles, I'm back for more.

Careful readers of the of the tale so far may recall I acquired a 12 Mtr steel hinged Hutchinsons turbine tower a while back along with Aurora Wind Interface (7200 W) and a 2 Aurora 3600W GT invertors. https://www.hutchinsonengineering.co.uk/sectors/onshore

I plan on building a 4 Mtr HP turbine and plan on grid tie installation for this addition using above Aurora kit and tower.

Before starting on the build I though I'd do a definitive drawing of the existing layout.  Which I post here for comments.  Some detail is left out, ie DC negative bus and isolators.

I have some thoughts as to the actual GT set up and will be asking for help with some detail.

I have looked on the Outback forum and there are references/threads on using GTI with the FXV3024 invertor. Ie Outback appear to concede it's do-able but offer no advice. I currently use the auxiliary relay on the invertor for automatic gen start.  The FM80 charge controller also has an Aux relay which I can use to provide a 12VDC signal based on battery voltage to switch on/off AC loads.

As we have wet UFH which is heated from an oil boiler or the WBS I plan to use all power surplus to heat firstly DHW then a pair of buffer tanks to feed into the floor.

I will I think, also need an alternative place to send power from the proposed new WT when or if the genny is running because. My ac grid will be pure sine wave 50Hz from (battery to) invertor. If the genny starts the DC input is cut and the AC in passes through the invertor and powers the house and will become the grid; it's frequency is different and variable (somewhat) and I figure the GTI may have problems synchronizing with it.



Cheers

Andy


« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 02:22:39 PM by offthegridandy » Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
camillitech
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« Reply #250 on: December 24, 2017, 03:52:47 PM »

Hi Andy,

interesting project, I find myself in a similar quandary, 6kW 'AC coupled' wind turbine and 3kW Outback. You don't mention what you think the output will be on the 4m HP but your drawing shows 2 x 3.6kW GTI's so I'm thinking it's more than the Outback could 'back feed'  sh*tfan So unless you have really reliable AC diversion you could be in for the 'magic smoke' (this is why Outback are very vague on information). I would be tempted to design the turbine so there is no possibility of the output exceeding 3kW. That way you will only need one GTI and no isolation transformer, I'm assuming you just forgot to put it on your diagram. You can't stack transformerless GTI's without one and they're quite lossy but methinks there was one with that bundle.

If your turnip is over the 3kW then your AC diversion can't be thermostatically controlled and must be bombproof. As I mentioned, I've been trying to come up with a way of doing something similar with my 6kW Proven/Kingspan through an Outback GVFX3048. Current thinking is to set the 6kW GTI to 3kW max and rely on an ABB wind interface or WBPB 600 to divert excess to heat air resistors but it's very much 'work in progress' I've also got two ImmerSUN units I'm considering using but that's getting a little complicated.

The generator is going to be an issue for sure, not so much the quality of the waveform, my HR2 and Aurora 3.6 got on just fine. You can (if you are lucky) get the unique code from ABB and widen the parameters for frequency and voltage 'drop out'. This is a unique for your inverter and not the code for setting the power curve and non G83 stuff. Your problem is going to be the danger of 'reverse power' into your DG (especially with wind).

Imagine the scenario, batteries are needing topped up so you (or the Outback) starts your DG to charge the batteries. Your DG is now supplying the loads so if your turnip is producing more than your loads it tries to spin up the generator. All DG's can and do cope with this to a degree but your talking of something like 10% for just a few minutes and your Outback has no way of stopping this (or even letting you know if it's happening). You can get devices to protect you DG and the SI has an adjustable one built in but it's a real PITA with the variability of wind (not so much with PV or hydro).

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
camillitech
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« Reply #251 on: December 24, 2017, 05:07:53 PM »

Just re read your diagram with my glasses on Andy and see you only have one GTI  wackoold
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
offthegridandy
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« Reply #252 on: December 24, 2017, 05:27:16 PM »

Good to hear from you Paul.

The HP design spec output for 3.6 Mtr Dia is 1000w as is the 4.2 mtr Dia. So my 4 mtr would similarly be 1000W.  The different coil windings giving lower wind speed/power/cut in.  I calculate that the 4 Mtr design will cut in IIRC, at 165 Rpm.  The current 2.4Mtr jobby starts around 245Rpm I think.

I've no doubt that the 4 Mtr unit will kick out more than 1Kw momentarily in gusts and gales depending on the tail furling but I doubt if over 2.5Kw. But I have every faith in the design and if I follow his lead it will work as specced.

 I was only planning on using the one GTI so I think the Outback is capable of that and hence no transformer.  Re AC diversion; the heat stores are set up so once up to a set temp the tank stat opens the valves and pump and starts the UFH regardless of the room stats situation. The return water flow will cool the tank and the heater can continue to operate with no likely hood of ever over heating.In theory the floor can soak up as many kw as I have spare as there is no high limit temp switch.

 In reality I've no Idea how much floor temp raise I'll see but its surplus I'm using and effectively storing as heat for slow release into the house.  So burning less oil in boiler.

I thought with the generator and back charging issue that I'd devise a separate dump load capable of taking the full WT output continuously with a relay triggered in parallel from the gen start signal so the load is dumped before the genny actually picks up the house load.

I did consider laying some electric floor matting pre tiling and I suppose I could do that as my dump load?

I thought I'd ask Hugh for advice on programing the MPPT for the Aurora, but I look forward to picking you brains again.

Any how, thanks again and all the best seasons greetings to you and all yours and all Navitroids.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
offthegridandy
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« Reply #253 on: January 20, 2018, 02:07:13 PM »

We've been "enjoying" the weather for the last week or 2.  Smug in the knowledge that the WT will take what ever gets thrown at it.!!  Or not

Took a walk around outside late Weds evening all's good with 400 watts going steadily into the batteries.

Thursday morn had to pop out for a couple of hrs but thought that the WT was making some vibration and the tower was shaking a bit.  Put the WT to park, thought, I'll have a butchers when I come back in.

On my return the WT was stationary and the cause of the vibration was all to clear. The tips have broken off all 3 blades and 2 off were on the ground at the base of the tower.  Some seeking about found nos 3 about 25 yards away down wind.

I can only suppose that either we had a bird strike, no evidence, no blood and no feathers.  Alternatively I can only guess that some air born arboreal debris got in the way of my blades. BA**tards







The way the wood is broken would indicate a full frontal shock impact.  If the blades had bent back and hit the tower the fracture would be on the other face of the blades.

This last couple of weeks I've been designing and planning the foundation for the 4 MTr WT and could really do with out getting on with repairs to this unit which will be retiring this summer.

But I do have a set of 1.5Mtr plastic blades as fitted to Hornet and Missourri type WT's.  So I may have a go at fitting a set of these for a short term fix. 

I'll have to make a new hub to mount them on and possible make some metal extension pieces to increase the swept area a bit. I'll need to check the finished weight of the bodge to ensure that the basic furling mechanism of Hughes design in not compromised.

I really didn't want to have to put the scaffold tower up again but hey nonny noh isn't life sweet.  Have to do it though, we had the genny running for a full battery charge cycle yesterday first time in 10 days.

I'll post some more piccys when I start creating the hub for the planned blade bodge.

Keep safe.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
camillitech
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« Reply #254 on: January 20, 2018, 05:17:40 PM »

You're not the victim of a daft yoof are you Andy, my young nephew was once caught trying to throw a branch into my Proven prop whilst it was spinning madly  banghead I don't think it was out of badness, he turned into a fine chap, just curious and wanted to see what happened. Methinks he was around the same age as me when I sat an apple on a boys head and threw a dart at it after watching William Tell on the telly wackoold
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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