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Author Topic: Half built Hugh Piggot turbine.  (Read 72796 times)
Billy
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« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2015, 08:07:40 AM »

Morning Andy, greetings from the misty marshes.

In my book of words 50 metres would give 50mm2 at 12V, 16mm2 at 24V, 4mm2 at 48V and 4mm2 for grid tie (120V).  This is for a 600Watt turnip.  This is from the coils to the rectifier as in your situation.

Thus 2.5 might be a tad small perhaps.  I got some three core 10mm2 rubber for mine and used 32amp three phase plugs and sockets as they were cheap enough.  electric-cable.com were quite a good price I found.
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« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2015, 09:38:25 AM »

Morning Andy, greetings from the misty marshes.

In my book of words 50 metres would give 50mm2 at 12V, 16mm2 at 24V, 4mm2 at 48V and 4mm2 for grid tie (120V).  This is for a 600Watt turnip.  This is from the coils to the rectifier as in your situation.

Thus 2.5 might be a tad small perhaps.  I got some three core 10mm2 rubber for mine and used 32amp three phase plugs and sockets as they were cheap enough.  electric-cable.com were quite a good price I found.

Morning to the 'Misty Marshes',

methinks I read in Hugh's turnip book or on his blog somewhere that there is some advantage to be gained by undersizing slightly for a HP turnip. Can't remember what it was right enough but it made sense at the time. Perhaps Scoraigwind will clarify and confirm I am not loosing my marbles.

Cheers, Paul
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« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2015, 06:31:36 PM »

Hi Billi, thanks for that.  I've been scouring The Book to see what Hugh recons the AC output to be, I thought I'd read something but can't find it now. Would it be up to 120VAC at 500w?

Paul hi, there is a reference to stalling effects if the alternator doesn't match the blades, is to slow. Increase the resistance  in the cable to the battery or even add in a small heater. Its on page 3 of my "how to build" book.

Andy
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« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2015, 07:15:45 PM »

Evening all,  had to go to the yard for a couple of hrs today, so on the way back i swung past to see if my friend Jeff the blacksmith was about.  I need to get some steel tube for building the tail and tail mounting that fixes to the main yaw bearing and hub support.  I dragged Jeff away from the tv and had a search in the "eap",  I found some 40 mm engineering grade tube, it has 5mm rather than 3mm wall so is heavier and stronger.  6 ft of that plus about a ft of 1 size larger tube to fit and swivel on the mount.


The tail mount fixes at an angle to the tube which makes the swivel on the tower top,  I had to bolt the wheel hub on so used some stud that came with the "kit", the nuts just fit and clear the hub when it turns. I peened over the end of the stud on the inside and fitted 2 nuts locked together on the back, stainless steel to!






I cut out the triangular support fillet and marked a birdsmouth on the end of the long piece of pipe that will be the tail
 boom. It has a birdsmouth cut out to set it at an angle. Hopefully get it cut out and do the welding tomorrow.





Cheers

Andy
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« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2015, 06:44:40 PM »

A cold grey morning so its shed time and welding.  I fired up the Lister because in theory our house system can "handle the welder" but I prefer to have the genny running when welding to avoid draining the batteries too much.

Cut out the birds mouth on the tail boom first, then set about rigging a jig to hold the tail swivel mount in the correct position.  It is fixed at an angle of 35' to the plane of the blades. The triangular fillet sets the tail mount at an angle of 20 degrees from vertical and I welded the mount to the fillet first. I then propped the whole yaw bearing/hub mount so the position for the tail mount was upper most.  Cunning use of the jaws of a Stilson wrench inserted into the pipe ends kept everything in line then a couple of tack welds, double check all then welded up.  I thought this bit would be tricky but not so today.


Next up is the 4ft tail boom.  I trimmed the birds mouth for a snug fit on its tube.  This tube forms the swivel/hinge and is also cut at an angle making the tail 20 degrees off the horizontal at its end position. Having welded the boom to its hinge I propped the tube to rest on the tube end whilst tacking. I added a 12 inch  piece of steel to the other end of the boom as a support for the plywood tail vane.




The reason for all these components having different angles is to provide a simple autofurling mechanism.  At rest the tail boom is basically pointing straight back. As wind sped increases the tail, being off set from the centre of the hub and the tower begins to be turned about on its hinge.  In extremis the tail is designed to end up nearly parallel with the blades and raised from the horizontal by the angle of the hinge.  As wind speed decreases gravity will swing the tail back towards its at rest position.

The lower edge of the hinge tube on the boom has a quadrant cut out which bears against the support fillet and limits the turning of the boom.







I shall have to get on and clean all this steel up and start applying paint.
I noticed today that the rotor should have 3 or 4 tapped holes for adjusting the separation of the stator/rotor set up.  I see there are only 2 holes and the're not tapped so I'll have to very carefully drill another hole and tap some threads. Onwards and upwards eh.

Cheers.

Andy
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 09:02:06 PM by offthegridandy » Logged

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biff
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« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2015, 06:57:59 PM »

Onwards and Upwards is right Andy,
                               You are doing great work. Sometimes when the wind is coming in from 2 different directions, you can really wicked turbulence that kicks the furling gear all over the place, The connection at the root of the tail needs to be super strong because the whole weight of the tail can lash around with a bang against the stop,
  I believe C/M had one of his tails bumped up and slip around to damage a blade during a storm but I might have got that wrong, Maybe it was someone else but one thing is sure when the wind really get going and starts buffeting from the two different directions, there will be nothing smooth about the furling operations.
  Nothing about the wind is constant.
                                            Biff
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« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2015, 07:01:37 PM »

Nice to see it coming along.....

Andy, as you now have the MAN HIMSELF watching over you............ Grin  I shall scuttle under a bush.

Those 3off 8mm threaded rods for lowering the magnet rotors together, I always find its where they press on the other rotor that gives me hassle. As the resin is broken away as the studs press onto the steel rotor itself, I have tried washers etc etc, but still the resin or paint protecting the steel rotor from the elements ends up coming away where the studs press.

I do a dry run with all painted bits etc, then dismantle again, take the rotors apart and remove the shards of resin or paint as they jingle jangle around inside the PMG if not removed.

Once the threaded rods are removed I now use an artist small brush and dab hammerite through the threaded hole to the other rotor, and dab a bit on the threaded hole to stop the rust from starting.

I trust this helps.
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« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2015, 07:10:22 PM »

Yes Biff it was my No 2 Turbine, Hurricane conditions, blades just slightly out of balance and the tail stop not quiet long enough to align and sit correctly with stop tube and wanted to force the tail upwards.

Result... tail lifted off and hit a blade, sending the blade 200 meters downwind.

All sorted now.


* PC141042a.jpg (211.94 KB, 737x983 - viewed 475 times.)
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Billy
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« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2015, 07:11:33 PM »

The old navi 300 had stops to stop exactly that.  It would swing 90 degs and clatter into the stop and clatter back again when we had the turbulent sarf airs.  The new downwind sexy beast just takes it.   extrahappy
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« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2015, 07:17:41 PM »

Nice work Andy,

I'm the same when welding, though it's more fear for the inverter than worry about the batteries. I did read somewhere that arc welding wasn't so good for inverters but that could have been and 'urban myth'. I have used a MIG through the Trace for short spells with no problems though.

Good luck, Paul
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« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2015, 08:56:54 PM »

Hi Paul CM and all. I only have a 140 Amp stick welder.  Bought by my dad in 1982 in Hereford as I recall.  I can weld but it's on the bottom of my skill set. Main problem is eyesight and lack of practice.  For my business, if any trailers, tanks or vehicles need attention I always have a professional take care of it.

CM I am in awe having both yourself and Hugh in attendance|to supervise my every mistake.

I do hope to avoid a misshap like yours CM I've told the SP (senior partner) that this is all safe and lots of people have done it before. Even a guy in Nepal.

Cheers

Andy
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« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2015, 09:15:18 PM »

Heres my amended stop arm. But remember this particular design on my stop arrangements is for the 3.6m diameter design. Andy's metal work designs are slightly different Biff......

I gusset the tail boom, its a UK scaffold pole 1.5 meters long, well it does come ready galvanised.

Pic 1, shows standard end stop.
Pic 2, shows my amended and additional flat bar angled so not to ride up.


* P1180584a.jpg (64.56 KB, 476x635 - viewed 437 times.)

* P1180582a.jpg (78.51 KB, 614x461 - viewed 480 times.)

* P1180583a.jpg (80.31 KB, 635x476 - viewed 445 times.)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 10:14:06 PM by clockmanFR » Logged

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offthegridandy
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« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2015, 09:18:43 PM »

Thanks for that CM, I'd just as soon learn from you and not have flying blades.

Andy
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« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2015, 09:24:15 PM »

Ok I should check in more often, I know.

Best update would be to get the new book which is a bargain on amazon at $6 or hard copy is less than 15 delivered.  Or you can plough through my updates at http://scoraigwind.com/axialplans/recipe%20update/index.htm

my recommended size for 60 metres for a 24V 2400 diameter turbine is actually 6mm2 wire and yes there is a factor of not stalling the blades in that calculation.  thicker wire will have less loss but if the battery is low and the alternator well made then you may stall the blades using much thicker wire.

Welding of the generator is what I did for thirty years, and it is absolute pants compared with welding off the inverter which is what I do now whenever the battery is not dying completely.  Generator power quality is cr*p.

I would not use M8 for jacking screws.  M10 should work fine.  But yes beware of swarf in the air gap and I do recommend you guard against corrosion in all forms and cover everything with oil and grease when you can.  Unless you live a long way from the sea in a dry place obviously (colorado) and then you have no worries.

tail stops in the 2005 edition are definitely a bit of a worry and I recommended even then (see page 37 bottom right) the use of beefing up pieces on that notched pipe.  If in doubt use the recipe book design.  Clockman has posted while I wrote this and I will look at his post now but also you need to be aware that a heavy tail will make the machine work harder than a light one, so make sure your design is based on a consistent set of plans and not a mixture.

I hope this helps
Hugh
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« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2015, 05:45:37 PM »

Thank you Hugh, I found your link to the updates page, I can wade! Also thanks for wire sizing info.

I'll go for 10mm for the jacking screws and check the overall weight of the tail/boom.

Re the beefing up of the tail stops I thought I'd see if I've got any suitable pipe; slice it down its length twice to give a couple of sections to weld on.

Cheers.

Andy



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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array permanently ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw wind turbine H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 Kw
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