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Author Topic: Half built Hugh Piggot turbine.  (Read 72734 times)
biff
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« Reply #225 on: March 19, 2017, 12:07:34 PM »

Hi Andy,
       I once had a 24v x 600watt Y/S stuck on the basket of my own Cherry Picker..
  It was quite exciting and a bit if a revelation, Turbines and cherry pickers do not go well together.
 I discovered that my perfectly balanced little Y/S W/T could rattle and shake the life out of the Cherry Picker in a force 8. (While braking)
 The vibration even traveled down the jib and started attacking the  slewing gear before I guyed it from the basket.
 Sorry to hear your Outback woes and I hope they come to their sense and offer you a better deal.
                                           Biff
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #226 on: September 26, 2017, 08:13:48 PM »

So with another season of Portalooing done and dusted I can get back to the important things in life. Like getting the WT back up and running. And so the story goes on.

During the summer I've found the odd hour or two free and have replaced the bearings in the alternator and made a new tail vane exactly to Hughes design. My problems in the last winters' gales all could be directly linked to the turbine furling late.  Inspection of the old tail boom revealed that I had inadvertently used thick wall steel pipe (cos I had it and it looked nice and strong) but of course it's much heavier as well, so the furling action was compromised. Duhh stupid boy.  I've also made sure that the overall length was correct.

Given the abuse that the alternator took last winter I was delighted to find that the stator was still fully operational and I didn't have to replace any coils.

So now I'm left with the damage that the top mast section of the tower suffered.

I have now got a replacement, beefed up mast section made. I have 1.2 Mtr of thick wall 60mm tube which reduces at the top to 50mm for the alternator frame to swivel on.  Where the step down occurs I have a phosphor bronze bush for the wearing surface.  The bottom of the tube is now welded to a new 12mm base plate with 3 triangular fillets, to give some lateral support

The base plate will be bolted to the plate at the top of the lattice tower with 12 Nos 12mm bolts with nylock nuts and probably some thread lock liquid as well.

I've found a round plastic plug to stop the hole in the top of the mast and the 3 cables will run inside flexy plastic conduit to the point where they emerge into the lattice work to reduce any chance of chaffeing.

Shoot me down if you wish but I'm doing away with the slip rings and will allow the cables to twist as they wish.  There is a plug in the cable and socket in the cabling at the bottom of the tower which can be pulled apart if required to release excess twist but our wind is generally from the N or NW so the turbine rarely fully rotates thro 360'.

I have to get some paint on the new base plate and whilst it's down here on the ground I'll use it as a rig to fit the alternator complete with blades and re do the blade balancing.

I've scaffolded to the top of the lattice tower and hope for some calm weather toward the weekend so I can start hauling stuff up and start the final assembly. I checked all the cable connections, brake switch and rectifier this PM so were progressing now!










Cheers.

Andy
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mr_magicfingers
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« Reply #227 on: September 26, 2017, 09:22:32 PM »

Looking forward to this winter's turbine adventures.

Out of interest, is your company Andyloos by any chance? Seen those at a couple of events this summer and I wondered if it was your company.
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« Reply #228 on: September 26, 2017, 11:29:44 PM »

Slip rings are really necessary Andy,
                             Billi avoided them by using a long rope tied to the tail but your baby is very high up.
    You could go for months on end without a bother and then a day would arrive with the wind blowing in from two different directions or an eye passing over,
 The  twisting could wreck the lot in 10 minutes,,once the connections is broken, the turbine takes off into the blue.
         The choice is your Andy, I would not chance it. Our turbine has big heavy duty double sliprings. It would not last a month here without them.
                                                        Biff
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« Reply #229 on: September 27, 2017, 07:01:23 AM »

I am with Biff on this Andy, where we were in Finistere we had predominantly SW winds but  had days where it came in gusts from everyway bar North. I would stick with slip rings.

Looking forward to reading your further adventures.
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« Reply #230 on: September 27, 2017, 11:19:50 AM »

On another note Andy, why is the metal clad 13A socket in your workshop mounted upside down?  Smiley
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« Reply #231 on: September 27, 2017, 01:53:22 PM »

On another note Andy, why is the metal clad 13A socket in your workshop mounted upside down?  Smiley

To keep the earth connection closer to the ground of course!
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« Reply #232 on: September 27, 2017, 08:16:41 PM »

Hi guys, thanks for your interest and support. It's good to be able to get my head somewhere other than explaining to a customer for example that a luxury shower block with gas boiler needs something more reliable than; and I quote, "can't we just stick the Alkathene pipe in the stream?" Or why does the waste outlet have to be higher up than the drain.  I've  worked miracles on some jobs but getting sh*t to run up hill unaided has defeated me.

Sadly Mr M.F. we are not Andyloos; they are a major player and probably have 10 times our resources, but maybe less charm!

As for the socket in the shed Roys; I wish I knew why it's inverted.  I installed it and at the time there must have been a reason, perhaps the cable was short in side the box and in a rush inverting the face plate just made it fit.  Now every time I use it I look and wonder what the flip was this for. Age and early on set is a poor excuse bit I just canna remember now why I did it.

I knew I'd stir it up re the slip rings but I'm happy to do so.  Hugh Piggott goes with the twisted cable method, and our local conditions with a consistent prevailing wing plus previous experience here make me confident it's ok. And of course as the cable is free within the lattice tower it is not going the become trapped, unlike with a length of scaffold tube.

I see the forecast is not to good for the next few days but I hope to progress as and when.

Cheers.

Andy
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« Reply #233 on: September 28, 2017, 07:44:09 AM »

I'm with you Hugh, and Clockman re the slip rings Andy, just another point of failure. Clockman has had three up for ten years and managed just fine. Hugh, well feck knows how many he's done. Two things, turbines mounted away from buildings, trees, shipping containers and up high in clean wind rarely 'hunt'. Hugh's design has no yaw bearings as such so the constant 'hunting' experienced on poor sites is damped. Sure if you have a light turbine that reacts quickly to sudden gusts they are absolutely essential. My Rutland would have tangled the cable in a couple of days for sure.



The mast may have been almost 18m tall but near all those trees and the house, steady winds were turned into chatotic ones.



The Proven/Kingspan turnips would be fine too I'm sure, their heavy downwind design makes them very slow to react, which as well being a strength is also a weakness as they're slow to start if stopped facing out of the wind. Indeed the downwind Miniwind types never had slip rings either. Of course you are always better with them if they are 'man enough' but as to fitting them on a well proven design, not a chance. I think you would find the HP design too lively on many sites if you fitted slip rings to it. A friend of mine (on my advice) fitted slip rings and bearings to his HP and then spent the next month up and down the mast fecking about with the tail size. In retrospect I think it was my fault for giving him the benifit of my greater experience  facepalm

Good luck, Paul
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« Reply #234 on: September 28, 2017, 10:05:26 AM »

I guess it has a lot to do with the type and design of the turbine in question,
                                  I will admitt that slip rings are a stress point and consequently a weakness is not engineered properly. However, If properly designed and installed, they will last for years.
I recall the first pics of Billi,s oldest stricken W/T. It had gone out of control for some curious reason and wrecked itself. However, there in one pick of the base of the sheared off tower and clearly visible inside the stump were the remains of the twisted cable,twisted almost beyond recognition. I believe that it had twisted the cable out of the W/T and then took off.
  Our own Y/Ss started off without slip rings in the Mark 1. the Mark 2 had a silly little black plastic box that split with the heat,, The Mark 3 had large double sets of brushes that grabbed the slip rings from either side of the Yaw. I consider these to be a work of art, Of course  these all depend on the bearings on the yaw but again the bottom bearing is like something that you would find in the differential of a tractor and the top one a full 10 inched above it is a just a small 3" in diameter roller affair. All in all,,strong and durable.
  The Hugh Piggott,s w/t design is of course a much superior one. However I know of quite a few Hugh Piggott Turbines that are flying nice big hollow f/g Chinese blades  Grin .  Hugh,s furling design is a winner. Our Y/S furling design was a disaster and actually would have went a long way to destroy the companies reputation..The Mark 4 finished it off.
  So all in all,,Some do,, Some don,t..  Our Turbine would not last a day without slip rings and brushes.
                                                                           Biff
 
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« Reply #235 on: September 28, 2017, 11:44:12 AM »

I guess it has a lot to do with the type and design of the turbine in question,
                                 
 
  So all in all,,Some do,, Some don,t..  Our Turbine would not last a day without slip rings and brushes.
                                                                           Biff
 

That's the point Biff, the HP was designed not to have slip rings, it doesn't have bearings as such, just one pipe slid inside another, it is not held rigid by bearings. Consequently fitting slip rings will mean they wobble, spark and burn out. So you do what my mate did and fit bearings, this holds the slip rings firm but then loses the damping effect of two pipes. This then affects the normally 'bomb proof' furling system with some forty years of experience behind it in many theaters throughout the globe. Sure slip rings are essential on most turbines, desireable on some and foolish on others. I would say that Andy's turnip falls into the latter catagory and he would do good to stick with Hugh's recomendations.

Cheers, Paul

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« Reply #236 on: September 28, 2017, 02:00:38 PM »

mine is a hp and has swa coming down the pole, never been an issue in 5 years.

steve
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« Reply #237 on: September 28, 2017, 03:11:44 PM »

  But,,Yes Andy, I gave you the wrong answer,
                                So sincere apologies, all around.
  Weather here is would drown a duck with no let up. Lovely storm on the way, L,Kenny, the Las Vegas of Europe is also washed out.
 Somehow we are the lucky ones, (Touchwood)
                                                              Biff
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« Reply #238 on: September 28, 2017, 08:58:17 PM »

Hi Biff.  Not at all the wrong answer. It's more a question of the appropriate answer for the specific installation as opposed to the general (correct answer).  But it's always great to get another view point to help in the thinking process.

So thanks extra the input Paul and Steve.

Andy
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« Reply #239 on: October 03, 2017, 08:14:00 PM »

Monday was mainly dry but with a bit more wind than I wanted, but I hauled the freshly painted, new reinforced mast to the top of the tower.  Twas breezy but my hat was staying on.  I got the mast up onto the plate at the tower top and G clamped in position.  I then had to take power up top to drill the required bolt holes in the plate through the pre drilled holes in the new base plate. Brand new drill bit was the order of the day with a slow speed drill. The plate I was drilling was about 15 inches of the deck so it was OK to hold a firm steady pressure on the drill. Job done and 10 Nos 19 MM (AF) nuts and bolts later the tower was bck in place

Today was forecast as sunny and breezy and so it was. Mind before lunch I did have to dump my usual wide brimmed head gear for a woolly hat (no pom poms) I hoisted the alternator frame up first and got it fitted on the greased mast top.  Then took some time to feed the 3 cables and their plastic sleeve out through the mast top. Next up was the stator with it's output cables already wired into an insulated junction box. The stator fits on 3 studs on the frame and was quickly fixed on wi a drop  of locklite on the threads and nuts. The junction box was fixed back onto the frame and the final wiring connections made. Next on the 2nd rotor,  carefully does it as them magnets do pull.  I kept 2 jacking screws in place initially so no trapped fingers.

So tail boom and blades to fit.  I waited till after lunch and the wind did abate a bit so I figured I'd have a go at finishing the job.  I took the tail up first and dropped it onto its greased pivot  pin. If the wind was to blow the tail will be keeping the face of the alternator towards me. Next up the blades.  These are 4 ft radius so had to come up outside the scaff tower;  which I don't like on principal but the scaff is secured to the main guyed lattice tower. so fairly solid.

I'd checked the brake switch was in park and had a loop of rope attached to the mast then a lull in the wind and at 2nd attempt I slotted the blades on to the 4 studs and got my rope tie on to stop any rotation with me up there.  A leisurely few minutes with a socket and the lock nuts are on. Job was done and turbine back up in the wind. I dropped the top 3 frames on the tower which gives clearance for all the guys to be tension and checked for security.

I set the turbine to run at just about the time that the wind was dying this evening but did see 4 amps before dusk.  So we're up and running again and hopefully will stay that way for a while!

Working single handed left no time for happy snaps of work in progress.  But  here  are 2  pic's of the finished job.





Next up is sorting out foundations for the new 12 mtr tower I collected from Cornwall last January. It's going to make hole in the piggy bank.

Cheers.

Andy.

PS Warning please don't emulate working at this height.  I worked as a Rigger for years and am V careful.  Still alive anyway.
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array permanently ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw wind turbine H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 Kw
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