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Author Topic: Half built Hugh Piggot turbine.  (Read 78792 times)
eabadger
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« Reply #405 on: January 02, 2019, 09:27:50 AM »

brilliant!
got to do same to mine now as put to shame.

steve
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1kw wind turbine.
26kw wood stove back boiler to underfloor heating and dhw
offthegridandy
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« Reply #406 on: January 12, 2019, 06:25:32 PM »

Just a quick up date for anyone thats' still following this epic.

Turbines been up for 10 days now and I've finished wiring in relays and dump loads etc.  I'll post a circuit diagram some time.

When the turbine 1st went up I found that she would start to turn at about 2.5 mtr sec wind speed and at 3.5mtrs the inverter would synchronize so thats about 60 rpm. With the wind up to 5 Mtrs sec power starts to come in but I also found that the yaw and tail bearings (metal to metal) were making loud grinding noises which I doubt are doing any harm in the short term but offends my ear.  I thought I'd leave alone for a while to get an overall feel of the performance and behavior overall before I start tinkering.

The WT starts to furl at about 9.5 mtr sec wind, I haven't seen the WT tail full furled yet but I've seen gusts up 15 mtr. The vane flutters some what at that speed so I might add some bracing. With out too much weight.

I've been away odd days and have turned the WToff then,  as it's all untried.  But since last night at 8PM the little beauty has been churning along with winds in the 7 to 12 mtr range. So far today, up to about 4.30 we've done two loads of washing and in total have generated 12.3 Kwhrs.  Batterys at about 25.5 volts.  I think the PV today did 0.75Kwhrs so all in all, darn good.

I've still not got the proper power curve programmed in as I'm having trouble loading a driver for the comm unit Paul has lent me.  The curve that's in the "box" will be for a 6Kw 5.5 mtr turbine,  the old Eoltec Scirocco which is bound to different.

When I've sorted the power curve , I'll see how she runs then drop the unit down for an inspection and review of the noisy yaw bearing. 

The old turbine I removed last weekend has phosphur bronze bushes.  I might see about sourcing some of suitable diameter as it worked well and was silent.  If the wind drops I've got the old lattice tower to dismantle and tidy away all the guys etc.

So a few steps more but all good.

Cheers.

Andy


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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
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Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
todthedog
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« Reply #407 on: January 13, 2019, 06:47:07 AM »

Following with great interest and admiration Andy. This has been one of the most fascinating threads of the year 2018. What next?
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biff
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« Reply #408 on: January 13, 2019, 08:58:49 AM »

I'm  delighted for you Andy.
           Sounds like a job well done.
       Biff
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #409 on: March 10, 2019, 10:59:51 AM »

I thought an update was due as I have been tweaking the turbine these last few weeks.   We had a big blow in January and for a couple of reasons I had the turbine running unloaded for a period of time.  I ended up damaging the stator trying to use the brake switch in too high a wind.

From watching the turbine I could see that the furling action was too late and too slow. With a wind of over 15 ms the tail hadnít fully furled. The blades were mounted on 10mm steel plate with a triangular cross member in front of the blade roots. In the gale the plate flexed back over 14mm and allowed the back of the blades to hit the stator mounts. Bad news.

After the wind dropped I lowered the tower and have since,  lightened and altered the tail length so the WT should furl earlier. I have also machined up a new front plate for mounting the blades.  An additional 10mm steel plate for the front, so the blade roots are fully sandwiched in place.  In addition I have added in some side framing to the rear blade mounting plate to eliminate any potential sideways movement of the blades.  Iíve added a few  kilos to the total hub assembly but the blades will be less able to flex at the  root.


This is the original blade mounting plate.  I've now made a second one so the blade roots will be sandwiched securely between them, which reduce the likely hood of further flexing of the mounting plate.


This is the blades newly assembled and sandwiched between the 2 plates. You can see where I've added some side plates to the rear plate to keep the blades accurately in place.

Iíve also remade the stator; 12 more coils of 0.9mm wire with 330 turns per coil.  Got them pretty fair this time so they are all just touching when placed in the mould.
Iíve also added a phosphor bronze bush for the yaw tube to rest on.  This means the lower edge of the yaw tube is carrying the weight rather than the top of the alternator frame grinding away at the top of the tower tube.

So yesterday and today I got it all reassembled and got the blade tips all set equidistant. Now all I need is a day with no wind so I can check the balance and get back in action.  Probably not in the next few days though if the forecast and Biff are4 anything to go by!



You may be able to spot the shinny new phosy bronze bush below the yaw tube. £50 sob sob!


With the new set up I now have 40mm clearance from the stator mounting nuts to the rear edge of the blades; hope that's enough now.

So all I want now is a calm day to rebalance everything then whinch my baby back into the sky.

Andy

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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
biff
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« Reply #410 on: March 10, 2019, 01:37:55 PM »

Fair play to you Andy
        You do not give up easy. I remember my own trials and many errors. I was bamboozled by a 2 bladed prop that developed a terrible vibration at a certain speed. I could balance e it normally and get it near enough correct horizontally and when it took off it was lively and smooth until it hit that danger speed. It could go over and be OK but then when it slowed I to that certain band. It just went crazy. I had spent 250+ on the hub alone and all my efforts were a total disaster.
  I needed to get it working  get it working and producing enough to run the house. So I stuck the hub and prop of a 48v x 1kw Y/S on it to just get something out of it so it would not run mad like it did with the prop that came with it. Goodness me. !  Talk about revelations. It worked perfectly both at low speed and gales. The satisfaction was all the more sweet because of all the hassle and disappointments.
 Don't worry you will get there and it will be very good.
           Biff
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #411 on: March 18, 2019, 03:44:55 PM »

Hi Biff and thanks for your encouragement.  Give up; I don't speak that language. The WT is only a machine.  I made it and will persuade it to work for me, not the other way around.

Forecast for the next few days shows the high winds dying away so I'm looking forward to winching the beast back into place. But not to be idle I've continued on making a couple more modifications.  My one concern with Hughes design is the lack of any control in the event of an "Event" when the wind is to strong for the brake switch to operate with out risk of damage to the stator.  So copying some one else design from a posting on Hughes blog site, I've added in a manual furling device.  

Basically I've added a small pulley to the top of the yaw tube which can swivel independently of the turbine.  I've used a 4mm wire rope and fed it up inside the tower, via the pulley and attached it half way down the tail boom.  From the base of the tower it will be possible (if it all works) to winch down the cable which in turn, will swing the tail round to the fully furled position so the blades will then be edge onto the wind. If I've now got the tail furling moment correct this device should only be needed if some component has failed.








I will have to make a small winch to sit at the tower base to pull down the cable and lock it off.

I've also added a rubber bump to the lower seat for the tail boom so there is not quite such a crash when the tail swings back after a gust blows over. I've also got an Aerolastic strap to reduce the speed of the boom travel.  I shall have to see how the stretchy strap survives the weather.



I winched the tower up a couple of meters this PM and took did a trial on the blade balance, there was still a breeze so I can't be 100% but overall the dynamic balance looked good.  I'll wait another day before signing the job of as wind is still bringing the odd gust and I want the balance to be spot on (ish),

Watch this space.

Cheers.

Andy
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 04:09:09 PM by offthegridandy » Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
biff
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« Reply #412 on: March 18, 2019, 05:37:50 PM »

Excellent news Andy,
               I trust everything will go well for you. Your manual furling idea is good. I think it means if the wind changes direction the tail still pulls the Turbine edge on to the wind and that is excellent stuff.
    I recall many years ago, A friend of sorts was buying a turbine off me, A 2kw jobbie but because mine were only for off-grid purposes he bought direct from China and took it through the Dublin port customs. Explained that i was leaving too much to chance and had no way of braking my turbine, which was true in a sense. His idea was a manual disc brake on the rear of the turbine, fixed directly to the shaft. His lump was a long and narrow Xmork type. Nothing wrong but I tried to tell him that when he braked at speed with blades some 8ft long or 5mtr diameter prop, the shaft would twist and distort.
 The shafts on mine were 40mm but on his they were 32mm,, The disc brake was a 250mm affair with good heavy pads. I tried to explain that because the shaft was so long and the brake was so powerful the whole lot would rise up and maybe wreck the winding. It was a 3kw jobbie as well. The prop was actually 5mtr + back then and he reduced the diameter to 5mtrs on the 3rd attempt.
   On it,s maiden voyage, it began picking up speed at a reckless rate. The base of the tower was only 30ft from his back door. So out he raced and pulled the brake hard and made poo of the lot in seconds.
  He spent a good half hour on the phone telling me that he was going to sue the guts out of China. To be honest, the Chinese sent him a new lump which I thought was very decent of them. The blades were massive and reached down almost to the roof of his house, They made a rather unpleasant noise as well. So he got a book on making blades, wooden ones and I was asked to visit and give my opinion,
  I realised by then that my opinion was worthless but like now, I was a glutton for punishment and a week after I got the invite I drove the 2 hours to his house not knowing what to expect. When I got there he threw open the barn doors to his workshop and there before me were wood chipping almost to the ceiling on both sides of this long bench with a rack guide and a chainsaw balanced on it. The wind had picked up and there was sawdust flying everywhere. Once he began talking about the affair with the blades he became agitated immediately. He explained that Hugh made blades like that and showed me how the chainsaw followed the rack guide. I explained that this was all new to me and that i wished I could help but sadly i was clueless. The blades were buckling and bending before he could get them smooth and painted and even when he painted them they went like bananas ( his exact words were fxxking bananas) . His wife must have been watching him getting worked up. She came out and invited us in for tea. A lovely woman. A kind gentle soul. Now both of us were /are profoundly deaf and outside in the wind we could hear each other perfectly with some vocal adjustments as could the neignbours miles away, however in the quiet of the house,,that kind of volume was not appropriate,  so the good woman kind of acted at an interpreter of sorts. The jist of the conversation being that i had blades but nothing that would be of any use. They were simply not up to the job, They were auld hollow fiberglass rubbish and not in keeping with his standard of workmanship. He needed the good solid feel of the trusted wood. So I understood that and willingly gave way. He grudgingly agreed with me and I made my exit.
     I got many calls after that, Somewhere in my previous life, I must have been a monk or a priest who unconsciously encouraged people to confess and relieve themselves on me. (near enough the right words) I learned of my friends many encounters with the ESB. I learned of his many inspections fees at 300Euros a pot. He finally got a connection to the grid and little by little the calls subsided.
   Life is like that, I would stride forth clueless to educate the masses but get a proper education in return.
                         Biff
 
     
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« Reply #413 on: March 19, 2019, 06:36:03 PM »

So for the 1st time in got to be 2 to 3 weeks the wind didn't blow this morning and after brekky and coffee a trip outside with the Tirfor winch all set up and ready to go.

I winched the tower up a another mtr or so and set to on the blade balancing.  Using an elastic band I secure a disposable plastic glove to each blade tip.  Then one by one 1 place a 25 gm weight in to a glove and mark the point to which that blade rotates.  With no weight added to any blade they all rotated down to the same point and adding 25gms to any blade tip brought about a measurable difference to the parking point.  So after pratting about adding less than 10 grams I decided that the balance was as good as I could get it.  As a final test I gave the blades a couple of spins and after each time the blades parked in a different position.  More coffee and a final check off everything, then sun was just shining and still no wind.  So all hands to the winch.

It took me about 25 mins to get the beast up vertical and then another couple of hrs torquing the 12 off double nuts down. Eagle eyed will spot that even though this is a monopole I 've actually got 4 guy wires fixed half way down the tower.  I had the ground points which had been used for the earlier lattice tower.  The main reason for adding them is noise in the hollow tower. In the few weeks in January when the WT was up I found that the hollow tower acted like an amp for any kind of noise. The guy wires should damp any frequency/vibration. As soon as the turbine was up I let off the brake switch so she was running in the small wind at  that time.  It was quite noticeable that as I torqued the nuts and the tensioned the guys that all noise died away leaving just the whisper of the blades.

Had a bit of a breeze this PM and the turbine is (so far) behaving beautifully and very quiet.  I now have to rig a small hand winch at the base of the tower to test the manual furling device.

Then check the wind curve in the GTI and I can get on to other stuff.  Replacement barge boards and fascias looms large this spring.

So her she is up and running. Was probably making about 100 w when piccy was taken.





Cheers.

Andy
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 06:38:29 PM by offthegridandy » Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
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« Reply #414 on: March 19, 2019, 07:23:18 PM »

She looks good Andy,

I did put guys on my first tower for a while cos I didn't trust the resin not cos of the noise as it was 150m away from the house.



I also put a sign up for the low flying jets but I took em off in 2008, the glue is still good and the RAF never hit my turbine  Grin
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« Reply #415 on: March 19, 2019, 07:24:11 PM »

 :Excellent  news Andy.
      Well done
              Biff
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« Reply #416 on: March 19, 2019, 07:28:05 PM »

Respect Andy -very envious .....................
But  not  got your talent ...
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« Reply #417 on: March 19, 2019, 08:26:48 PM »

Why use 4 guys instead of 3?
Stan
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« Reply #418 on: March 19, 2019, 08:33:51 PM »

Why use 4 guys instead of 3?
Stan

Why not?
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« Reply #419 on: March 19, 2019, 08:46:26 PM »

4 guys is far superior to 3 because you can put a winch on one guy and lower the turbine safely without loosening the other 3. You just have to make sure the guys on left and right of the winch are lined up with the hinge point so they stay under the same tension when the tower is up or down.
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