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Author Topic: Half built Hugh Piggot turbine.  (Read 78589 times)
offthegridandy
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« Reply #450 on: April 08, 2019, 09:00:20 PM »

Hi peeps and thank you very much for your input.  Firstly apologies for being "offline" for the last couple of days.  I'm on some medication at present pending a visit to the Q.E. hospital in Birmingham in a few weeks time.  The dosage tends to knock my sleep patterns and can leave me a total drongo for periods.

First off I'm pretty sure that the Outback inverter charger does nothing with frequency shifting; simply responding to time and amps in/out setting parameters.  

Secondly, HH you could well be right regards the immersion heater thermostat being the actual cause of my problem.  Possibly "fluttering on and off as it approaches top of it's heat setting.

I spent some time today doing an up to date drawing of the circuits as they stand today.  I have missed out detail of fuses and some circuit breakers for clarity but here it is.




Rather than spending too much time trying to discover the why of my problem I have formulated a plan to try and I will do a drawing of the planned amendments to post tomorrow hopefully.

I rediscovered a Coleman Air diversion charge controller in my box of tricks and propose to try/test using it to control the AC dump load, rather than the PWM signal created by the Outback FM80 charge controller and SS Relay which is clearly the source of the "disconnect" problem for the GTI.

http://manuals.colemanair.us/shared/DiversionController160M_Current.PDF  The Coleman is designed to dump a DC load, but I propose to try to use the control circuit to dump AC from the house grid to my AC dump loads. I plan to try connecting the AC in from the WT to the common of the relay and then on to the grid. the connection to the dump load will be on the NO connection.  When the relay switches the WT will still see the grid but will be able to 100% dump directly  to the divert load. So hopefully avoiding and frequency issues. The test will cost me nothing as I've got the kit in stock and will require minimum disruption.

Basically the WT input is sent on to the dump load at an adjustable battery volt setting for 5 seconds. The Coleman then rechecks the battery voltage and either repeats the "dump operation" if battery voltage is above the set point or not, if not. As supplied it has a 40amp DC relay which I will replace with an AC jobby.

For test purposes I will disable the FM80CC aux signal so that the solar controller will simply complete the battery charging with no attempt to divert additional solar harvested power to the dump load via the AC bus.  If ultimately that means that I can't get a free tank full of hot water from the PV in the summer months (all sun and no wind) then I'll settle for that, if it means that in winter the WT operates safely and at maximum efficiency.

With regards the 2nd issue with the genny coming on and "upsetting" the WT supply and disconnecting the Aurora GTI, 1stly I will reduce the genny run time to either finish at a lower set voltage point or a limited set run time 3 hrs perhaps.

At present the genny MUST run if battery voltage drops to a set point and then completes a full charge cycle to the absorb voltage.  In reality usually the battery is also receiving some charge from a RE source and to some extent the top of the charge cycle is unnecessary(ISH).  The genny will also autostart if the load is in excess of a set point but then only runs long enough to support the load demand and then "off's" itself. In the event of a large load required I usually manually start the genny so am on hand to supervise.

From my records I see that the WT is providing in excess of 600W when the wind speed is 6 to 7 Mtr per second and I can safely use the brake switch at that wind speed. If the WT is supplying 600W then the genny won't get a start signal (normally) as that rate is greater than the normal house load. So I will fit a relay activated brake switch to the wild ac in from the WT to actuate when the genny starts.  IE if WT is supplying 600W then genny won't be required anyway.  But if there is no wind and sun and the battery is fully discharged then the genny can start and at the same time the WT will be braked and will remain so until the genny stops.  

I'm sure the purists will disagree but I don't get hung up about the actual state of charge of the battery.  It's never static and is constantly charging and recharging which is what it is designed to do.  If you've seen how fork lift trucks get hammered day after day; well  eh by gum.  I got many years life from my 1st set and still got 400 for scrap after 12 years; which was a quarter of the cost of their replacement.

I shall have to purchase some relays to complete the brake switch plan as outlined and will report back on the modified divert load scenario.  I will of course need some wind unlike today.

Thanks all for input and thoughts.

Andy
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 09:07:03 PM by offthegridandy » Logged

8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
biff
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« Reply #451 on: April 09, 2019, 12:02:36 AM »

Good stuff Andy.
            You are right about the forklifts hammering the batteries in their designated life. Their life with the wind Turbine is an easy one compared..
Really interesting plan to control your W/T. 
         Biff
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
offthegridandy
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« Reply #452 on: April 10, 2019, 11:17:35 AM »

So here is the drawing for the planned amendment to the WT divert load control circuit. I haven't sourced a 3 pole relay for the brake switch yet and I just placed an order with Farnells, duh stupid of me.

Lovely sunshine today with about 3Kw per hr going into the battery from the PV and the WT powering the house loads. Battery at about 27.5 V and slowly rising, dog with 2 tails and danglies, that's me.

Andy



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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
offthegridandy
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« Reply #453 on: April 15, 2019, 08:21:37 PM »

Oh sausage I've got too much power now, perhaps the title of a new thread.   Batteries are full, we've washed all the clothes; some of them twice, tanks are full of hot water, the room stat says 18.5',  battery is sat at 25V.

I got a delivery today of some relays and kit from Farnells and have still got some tweaking to do on the dump load arrangements but however I look at it I've now got surplus; so mission accomplished.  Taken a good few years to get here (or  there!). 

I know when winter comes rolling around things will change but at present; instead of trying to dream up more and more complex ways to dump or use power I've simply turned the WT off. Given normal summer sun the PV will do all we need, and I've still got  2 more 300w panels to fit some time.

I never really thought we'd get to this state of affairs and it seems really weird.

 I had a 14 year old boy (nephew I think) visiting here yesterday and having explained everything to him and given the grand tour; he observed that I needed to get some more battery storage.  A sensible comment from the lad, except as I pointed out tomorrow we would be able to fill that battery as well. Even if I could afford to buy an EV I don't really drive anywhere any more.  Perhaps 20 miles a week going to town once so that route won't help my quandary.

As I say I've spent so many years trying to get to a true surplus position that I'd never given a thought to what to do with a surplus surplus.  I turned 2 arrays of PV off today and I've been rewording the Bob Dylan song "Buckets of Rain" to buckets of sun!!.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
Nickel2
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« Reply #454 on: April 15, 2019, 09:08:38 PM »

If you have teenage kids/relatives, invite them over for the weekend. Apart from eating you out of house and home, they will take 30 minute showers and help use up all that surplus energy!  ralph
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
biff
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« Reply #455 on: April 15, 2019, 09:32:07 PM »

It is a nice place to be Andy,
                           Well done. Some years back we got at least 2weeks of freezing fog. No wind ,no sun. It was such a shock. I had to run the 230ac geni for days on end. Our 2 ton bank was frozen.
  Everyone will tell you that Lead Acid will not freeze but it did freeze here at -14 and stayed frozen for 2 weeks+. We thought it would not recover when the thaw came but it did.
   It is fantastic to be running fossil fuel free but by gum, despite my dreams of never having to use fossil fuel ever again. I had to admit that even if we had been on the mains, We probably would have have 10 time the outage and no standby like we had.
  I will be lowering our turbine in May and giving it a good polish, A change of prop and tail and a shot of red grease. Then it can spend a good while relaxing on the rear  lawn. Grin and let the PV work through the summer..   
                     Biff
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #456 on: April 16, 2019, 09:11:59 AM »

Hi N2.  I can see the merit of your idea from the using the surplus view point; but I could never handle it.  All my relatives live at least 120mls away.  For a reason! They have no interest in my life style so I don't invite them.

Biff I'm sure Mr Lister will still come out to play sometimes and I may well set up a monthly maintenance cycle for an hrs run time to keep the oil fluid and the starter battery charged.

I'll maybe see about fitting these new relays and controller today as it's damp outside and dry in the power house.

Cheers.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
offthegridandy
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« Reply #457 on: November 22, 2019, 09:17:43 PM »

Hi Peps, long time since I was very active here but I thought an up date might be of interest.

I was "off the grid" for a goodly part of the summer having had some work done on my head.  Now no sniggering in the back there I know my head needs work doing.  Seriously; I was very lucky to have some amazing surgery done at the QE hospital in Birmingham.  I had skin cancer that required having half of my nose removed. Which was fun, the rebuild involved taking grissle from my ear to get some bulk to rebuild the nose, then a skin graft from the top of my head to make up the nose surface.  The graft was left attached  to the source on my scalp for some weeks to give a blood supply.  The link was removed some weeks after the 1st surgery.

It's all worked out fine  but I was unable to wear my spectacles for weeks cos of the bandages which was a total bummer being unable to read, drive, watch the telly or any much else.  Mind the general anesthetic knocked me all to figs so I wasn't capable of much in any case.

I got the final all clear from the QE last week so that's the good news.  Bad news is that another summer has slipped by.

I dropped the WT on Monday for an inspection and service.  I did have it parked (off) whilst I was in hospital etc but it has been milling away steadily all summer and has average just under 3Kwhr per day. I want to grease the yaw bearing and also finalise the tail set up.  I originally made the tail boom from 2 pieces of steel tube and telescopic so it could be adjusted.  I have had a couple of times when the WT output has exceeded 4Kw which exceeds the peak for the inverter.  To control this I am reducing the tail boom weight a bit but also am going to alter the angle that the tail is hinged at from 20 degrees to 15.  This will make the tail furl easier and at a lower wind speed.  At present the furling starts at around 12 mtr second wind but even at 25 Mtrsec wind it is still not fully furled and output is still climbing. Luckily this has only been in gusts and not a sustained gale.

So today I dismantled the boom and remade it with a new single tube which cuts the weight down 2.2 kilogram
This is the original boom.

I've also noticed that the plywood tail can flap in the wind a bit.  So these V shaped supports have been changed. The new ones are thinner steel but longer  and 50X50 angle so have more stiffness than flat bar. The total weight will be about the same as the original 4 mm flat bar.

I got some paint on this afternoon before the rain came back and should get another coat on tomorrow.

The main yaw tube at the tower top is a simple sleeve of steel tube fitted over a slightly small tube.  During the summer on a very hot day I noticed that the grease was melting and oozing out the bottom of the tube. Making a black mess and making the yaw bearing noisy.  I 'm not sure how Hughes design can be altered to stop  the grease coming out but I want to be able to grease the tube with out dropping the whole tower if I can.  So I'm dreaming up a plot to install a grease gun at the bottom of the tower with a tube up to the top.  I've got some 10 or 12 mm copper pipe with a plastic outer sheath and plan to install this up the out side of the tower. At the top tube I'll drill a hole and take the copper up inside the drill another hole to feed the grease out into the bearing area. I calculate that the copper tube top to bottom will take about nearly a litre of grease but if I give it a small pump every couple of weeks it should keep it all sweet at the tower top.

Wish I'd been able to  get on with these jobs in the summer but hey nonny no I've been sat about getting fat.

Hope to  get on some more tomorrow weather permitting.  I should have second set of hands to  help get the blades off to allow me to work on the yaw bearing  and I'll try and get some piccies up as well.

It's blowing a treat now but we will be needing Mr Lister some time tomorrow with out the WT in service. Bummer, but my red diesel spend will be well below 500 for the whole  year for the 1st time ever so next year can only get better..

Cheers.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
TT
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« Reply #458 on: November 23, 2019, 09:22:28 AM »

What about auto greasers?

https://mpcservices.co.uk/spareparts/spare-type/miscellaneous/greasomatic-mp-grease-cartidge.html

Or something similar, grease dose can be set to different applications
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pantsmachine
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« Reply #459 on: November 23, 2019, 09:32:44 AM »

We use these autogreasers offshore. Excellent wee bit of kit.
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HUGE insulation depth.
5.12 kw PV system with Solar edge.
4.8 kw Pylon tech battery storage.
All Low energy bulbs.
Solar I boost charging 210 ltr OSO system tank.
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« Reply #460 on: November 23, 2019, 09:42:52 AM »

That's where I first came across them too, then used a lot in the water industry.
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offthegridandy
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« Reply #461 on: November 23, 2019, 10:11:52 AM »

My  first thought was for something like the greaser on the stern tube of a canal boat.  Give the handle a turn every day to force grease out around the bearing.  Does the greaseomatic work the same way?

It would need to operate in such a fashion so as to send grease up 13 mtrs to the top of the tower.

Or would it fit on the turbine top some how?

Always welcome to new ideas.  Cheers.

Andy
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
Outback VFX3024
4.6 Kw PV array ground mounted
Outback Flexmax 80
2 X Flexmax 30 PV CC
2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
12 Mtr free standing Tower.
u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
Tinbum
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« Reply #462 on: November 23, 2019, 10:21:35 AM »

http://www.wymark.co.uk/greasomatics/
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85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3 x Sunny Backup 5048, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, Atmos wood gasification boiler, Brosley wood burner, 2000lt buffer tank and 250lt DHW
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« Reply #463 on: November 23, 2019, 11:04:07 AM »

You may find that you can use ordinary automotive brake pipe, (stainless/copper/etc) connected to a stern-gland greaser at the bottom, with a flexible braided brake hose at the top.
1/2 a turn every so-often would help prevent wear/squeaking/seizure/etc.
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
TT
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« Reply #464 on: November 23, 2019, 01:13:14 PM »

The auto greasers can connect to longer pipe, as long as the pipe is primed first
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