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Author Topic: Off grid "hybrid" set up with grid tie too help please, newbie here.  (Read 3361 times)
billi
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2015, 09:23:48 PM »

yeah , once upon a time ....  i  told her that i have  just hanged  2x 50 kG Victron  Inverters to the shed wall ,  even they weighted  only about 20 kg each  Grin (according to their datasheet and  incl. toroidal transformer)


those lightweight (Taiwan) inverters , do not have the heavy copper wire toroidal transformers anymore  , same with  transformerless Grid tie inverters that are common today





« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 09:35:48 PM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
glyndwr1998
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2015, 09:34:05 PM »

Thanks for the continued support guys,

I appreciate some of the Taiwan spec may be alittle pork pie stats, and the sma stuff along with quality gear is built like tanks, I had a struggle lifting my 4000tl inverter through the loft hatch, jees it was heavy.

Have been doing a lot of reading today, the missus pretty miffed with the dos I've spent most of the day with my head buried either in a forum or on Google spec checking.

Also been reading about excess pv limiting or regulating devices that are dno approved.Emma for one unit in particular.
The dno have granted me a 7.5kw connection, but my set up is 3kw on East elevation roof and 4.5 kW on west elevation roof, the most I seen last summer was a peak generation of  6kw.
This new 3 kW array is flat on a shed roof with a very slight incline to the north, not ideal I know.
So, without testing or without data, I doubt very much I would reach a peak of 7.5kw max output of the whole lot together. And with the dno approving this type of regulation, this also could be a way forward. I know the Emma is expensive too though.
Looking at it, it looks no more than an emoncls, or something that can be knocked up with a raspberry pi or arduino and some code, if your clever enough that is, which I am not in electronics, but I am looking to learn arduino or pi in the future for small automation projects for my disabled son to play with, close curtains remote controls etc... Small stuff but something or make him smile.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 09:39:22 PM by glyndwr1998 » Logged

7.5kw solar pv
Prius plug in hybrid conversion by myself (now reverted back to standard prius)
Nissan e-NV200 wheelchair converted vehicle
billi
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 05:49:25 AM »

Hi billi, any feedback from the users of such inverters.?

All this hybrid stuff is still new to the market and the premium in price is evident, I haven't seen inside a sunny island but I doublt there's much more going on inside to a standard tl inverter but price is nearly 3 times as much, shame really.
Could the ac coupling of these types be done with the use of a mains automatic changeover/ transfer switch?



Hi and welcome

Quote
I have seen on eBay these cheaper chinese hybrid inverters, quoting 5kva 48v setups for around 500, price is fab but are they all they say they are?is a puff of smoke inevitable with them?
I can apply for fit for the off grid 3kw as long as it's connected legally, but if this proves too expensive I'll just do it diy.

I  am aware of    Inverter / chargers from Taiwan for that money  (not China), that    have a growing  community  of users , with inbuilt solar chargers PWM and MPPT versions ....  , but not suitable for  AC-coupling .  



Regards Billi



Went trough your posts again   , i assume    the 7.5 kw FiT harvesting  PV will  stay on the "Grid side "  (in the pic at the public power grid)  and the new 3 kw     on the Island side  (in the pic the PV on the roof)
Here is a illustration from those hybrid inverters



In the  description  of this inverter (sold in Germany by Effekta from Taiwan i would contact MPP-Solar )  they state
Quote
With insufficient power from the PV modules, the device automatically adds on battery power or when the batteries are empty it switches
over to the power grid.

So i  see only one problem ( but that would be similar to Sunny Island or my Victron  and others)  , and that is the Optimization  of  self-consumption of  the FiT harvesting PV on the AC side (Grid)  , and how to allow  the Grid (paired  with your FiT PV)  be switched through into your house  ! Without cycling the battery ( cause  the switching through of the "hybrid inverter"   will be done according to battery voltage )

So i guess an available (affordable) device like from sailwider-smartpower  could come handy , that works with  clamp sensors to monitor your house consumption and your Grid connected PV Production  and  automatically controls sockets in the house accordingly ( like a battery charger , your EV Car , immersion  , etc )  ....



So , ideally  let the  FiT-Grid PV  through  the Hybrid Off grid inverter  during the day into your house and cover as much direct consumption as possible/sensible  , while your new 3000 watt PV is connected to the hybrids Mppt charge-controller to maintain the battery fully charged  for the night

Other option , would be a Studer  Xtender  Inverter , that can  constantly mix battery power to your  FiT-Grid PV power  and your off grid 3000 watt PV just connected via charge-controller




Billi






« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 05:58:13 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
camillitech
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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 07:17:51 AM »

So i  see only one problem ( but that would be similar to Sunny Island or my Victron  and others)  , and that is the Optimization  of  self-consumption of  the FiT harvesting PV on the AC side (Grid)  , and how to allow  the Grid (paired  with your FiT PV)  be switched through into your house  ! Without cycling the battery ( cause  the switching through of the "hybrid inverter"   will be done according to battery voltage )

There are all manner of settings in the Trace and SMA manuals to prevent this, CM can probably confirm as he'd grid connected. I never read the relevant section but it can be time based rather the SOC or voltage based that's for sure.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 07:24:58 AM by camillitech » Logged

http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
billi
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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 07:35:05 AM »

I was responding to   Anthony words
Quote
I can't modify the existing 2 tarrif based systems, as I would then loose the tarrif, so the existing 7.5 kW has to remain as is
 and assumed , that one cannot easy AC-couple  and change  the Grid connected PV  and rewire it to an off grid inverter on the Island side like its been done with Victron inverters or Sunny Islands  !

I do not know the  UK FiT regs good enough !

Anthony  wrote
Quote
I know i am pushing the limits with the dno to ask them for a 10.5 kW connection on a single phase supply, so need advice as how to make best usage of this additional 3kw ps solar pv.
 So i assume , its kind off  a "gray" area and possibly better not to inform anyone , or change the system , and just charge the batteries without FiT payments  and no feeding the puplic grid with the additional 3 kW PV

Billi
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 07:36:58 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
glyndwr1998
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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2015, 10:20:09 AM »

Hi billi and camillitech,

The existing 7.5kw pv has to remain as it is, the feed in tarrif operators, in my case Scottish power send a declaration to be signed every year to d Clare that the existing pv system hasn't changed in any way, if it does change you have to declare the change and then re apply for the feed in tarrif, at the current rates rather than the rates that were applicable on installation. So these have to stay the same.

There are so many advantages of being on grid if already connected, and After much reading yesterday, for me, by far the easiest way to proceed is to have some kind of export limiting device that would limit my export capacity to a maximum of 7.5 kW, as agreed with western power my dno.

Billi, I have seen a similar product as you have provided info on from a company called totalpower, link below

http://www.totalpowershop.com/renewable-energy-management-unit-remu-i---uk-starter-kit-1-p.asp

I probably have to have a friendly conversation with western power and ask them what export limiting devices they have approved for use and see how much they cost. There must be more available today other than the Emma.
This way I may be able to connect my new 3 kW array and then apply for the feed it tarriff too.
In reality, with self consumption quite high in my house as we are home all the time, I can never see my export reading 4 kW never mind 7.5 kw.
I would probably buy one of those auto witching units too, and can control the charge to the car then too.

What you think of the export limiting devices?

I have another query, but not for this thread, it's about a project to use the electric vehicle as an energy store and reuse the energy from the vehicle at night, what section would be applicable for me in the forum for that one chaps?

Again thanks from your support.
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7.5kw solar pv
Prius plug in hybrid conversion by myself (now reverted back to standard prius)
Nissan e-NV200 wheelchair converted vehicle
Countrypaul
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« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2015, 01:32:41 PM »

Anthony,

Not sure if this is relevant to you or not, but you did mention that the 3kW of panels you picked up recently were quite cheap. If these were second hand then they would not be eligible for FITS is my understanding which may impact on your decisions.
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glyndwr1998
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« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2015, 03:35:27 PM »

Hi Paul,

From the Scottish power application form, the form doesn't actually state if they are new or not they just ask for proof of ownership, ie receipt etc.... To be honest, the fit would be the cherry on the cake. If I could get it passed with the dno, then for sure I will apply for the fit.
A fit can even be applied for if its off grid too, it's a case of finding out what I can and cannot do then proceed with a plan, thanks for the info anyway.
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7.5kw solar pv
Prius plug in hybrid conversion by myself (now reverted back to standard prius)
Nissan e-NV200 wheelchair converted vehicle
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