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Author Topic: Info Please on ELTEK SMPS 5000 SIL V3 48v/100A, Mains 230vac Charger  (Read 21856 times)
clockmanFR
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« on: March 31, 2015, 05:41:59 PM »

I have recently been given, again thanks 'Fred Bloggs', a .....

ELTEK SMPS 5000 SIL V3 48v/100a battery charger.

Any Forum members know how to set this, and what Modes, and what amps output to my batteries.

Will the settings I set stay set,? even when all power is removed, as I want to use a 230vac Contactor to switch it on when the Inverter, Sunny Island 6, asks for the generator to switch on, as this charger will be my Generator although direct charging the 48v battery Bank.
I will also put a time switch and Relay on it so to align with the EDF main grid Cheap Night Tarrifs.

Any info on the Eltek or where to find Info would be most helpful.



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« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 08:17:37 PM by clockmanFR » Logged

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camillitech
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2015, 06:14:54 PM »

I have something similar CM and kept it as an 'emergency, emergency' unit. It's just a matter of 'jumping' some of those connections on the back but I've not got a clue which ones. The one I bought (off Ivan) many years ago came with instructions on which ones to connect. Bet that 'Freddy the inverter man knows'. One thing to bear in mind when 'Googling' info is that they're usually referred to as rectifiers rather than chargers.

Just out of curiosity why don't you configure the SI to do the charging, or is that a sore topic  horror

Good luck, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
clockmanFR
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2015, 06:42:37 PM »

Hi Paul, and thanks, especially the tip on the rectifiers bit, cheers.

'Fred Bloggs', was very helpful, so I know what and where to connect, but not sure of the controls and settings.

Regards the SI6, well its still running on 50HZ  faint and I have shoved a SD card in the slot in the remote control unit, I tried looking at the raw data into Excel work sheet, yea right. Anyway if the SI throws a wobble then I can send the SD card to SMA. At present the Charger SI is using the AC Coupling spare capacity to charge the batteries as well.

Had masses amount of KW running today as its been real windy and real sunny, so my dump loads have been real dumping but by this late afternoon one of the Tristar PWM Controllers had decided to go to float before everything else and then the controller was back feeding the voltage difference into its dump load a full 2kW. aaaggghh, Its not a problem but things start to glow that dull red, gulp.

So been running the 3kW of undferfloor heating which is normal, plus 3kW Immersion heater, 250lt hot water, washing machine etc, and using about 4.5kW, and 2.5KW on the AC Coupling side that the SI does not see as its eaten up by the Immersion heater on the same Mini Grid.

I just wish I could link those uncontrollable Tristar PWM controllers?  to the Tristar MPPT controllers, as at least they can be tweeked.

In France the SI is NOT ALLOWED to be directly connected to the Main EDF Grid. It is prohibited, don't know why, but French SMA folk said its not approved.  And as you know we get the EDF ERDF folk dropping by and telling us that what we are doing is illegal etc etc, we get the French Legislation out and basically tell them to go away. fight    It would be a disaster if they found the SI connected and an excuse to remove and impound.

So hence the Charger.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 06:44:39 PM by clockmanFR » Logged

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camillitech
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 09:08:00 PM »





In France the SI is NOT ALLOWED to be directly connected to the Main EDF Grid. It is prohibited, don't know why, but French SMA folk said its not approved.  And as you know we get the EDF ERDF folk dropping by and telling us that what we are doing is illegal etc etc, we get the French Legislation out and basically tell them to go away. fight    It would be a disaster if they found the SI connected and an excuse to remove and impound.

So hence the Charger.

I see your dilemma CM, but surely your 'mini grid' must be isolated from EDF to be 'frequency shifting'  Huh So, if your are connecting the SI to the grid via the generator input then that too is not 'connected'  to the EDF grid as it is IMPOSSIBLE to backfeed the grid via the generator input. The SI in effect is just like any other electrical appliance used in this way. As your system has the GTI's set 'off grid' mode to enable FSPC then they wouldn't legal in any country connected to the grid anyway. Or am I missing something crucial  Huh

My understating of what you are trying to do with the charger is use cheap rate leccy, so, if you connect the SI to the grid via the generator input then all you have to do is set the generator parameters to only run your generator (grid connection) during the cheap electric times. There are settings for this in the manual. The Trace had function called 'quiet time', can't remember what SMA call it but it allows you to stop the generator (grid) at certain times, only bringing it into use if absolutely required.

Hope this makes sense and I haven't 'got the wrong end of the stick'.

Good luck, Paul

 
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
clockmanFR
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 09:18:29 PM »

"so, if you connect the SI to the grid via the generator input then all you have to do is set the generator parameters to only run your generator (grid connection) during the cheap electric times."

That's the thing Paul, THE SI MUST NOT BE CONECTED to the Main 230vac EDF Grid in any fashion through any INPUT ON THE SI.

Hence my 230vac EDF Main Grid, running a charger that chargers my 48v battery bank, there is then No possibility of any SI and Main EDF Grid interaction, and I can show their boffins that.

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camillitech
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 09:33:46 PM »

"so, if you connect the SI to the grid via the generator input then all you have to do is set the generator parameters to only run your generator (grid connection) during the cheap electric times."

That's the thing Paul, THE SI MUST NOT BE CONECTED to the Main 230vac EDF Grid in any fashion through any INPUT ON THE SI.

Hence my 230vac EDF Main Grid, running a charger that chargers my 48v battery bank, there is then No possibility of any SI and Main EDF Grid interaction, and I can show their boffins that.



But how do you get around all those GTI's set to 'off grid' mode and 'frequency shifting'  Huh If it were me I'd take the cover off one of Knighty's forklift chargers and put it over the SI  fingers crossed! I think if you can convince the 'boffins' at EDF that all those GTI's are not directly connected to their grid then you can convince them your new SI is an old battery charger  Grin

Keep up the good work, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 09:44:02 PM »

Because Paul, the SI Mini Grid 230vac cable comes up from the SI and then connects with another cable direct to my present SB's set in Off Grid mode. Then with all my changeover switches I can switch over/choose between EDF or my Mini Grid the whole house and the out buildings circuits.

The pic shows the Main EDF 3 phase incoming box and Distribution boxes. Temporary arrangement with the changeover switches until the other PV and SB's are installed on roof's/in my other outbuildings, then that 100amp change over switch can be locked, and all outbuildings will be on the SI Mini Grid and therefore AC Coupled.
 


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« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 09:47:32 PM by clockmanFR » Logged

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camillitech
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 10:00:59 PM »

Lovely and neat CM, I really think you need to paint around those switches  Grin

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Fionn
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2015, 12:42:13 AM »

Hi CM, i deal with Eltek a lot in my day job so perhaps I can help.
The module you have is one part of a multi rectifier system that it would have slotted into a backplane on.
It must be quite an old one as I've not seen that type before.
If it's anything like the newer ones it will run fine in standalone mode but you won't be able to alter the output voltage or set up current limiting etc as this is all done with the controller module in the backplane.
They do keep the settings after being removed from the backplane if that's any help - their current ones anyway.

Their current kit is excellent and stuffed to the gills with features, battery symmetry monitoring, low voltage disconnects, remote monitoring, temperature compensation etc. I've seen some of the newer 2kW modules sell quite cheaply on eBay. They're easier to connect to and it would be easier to find a backplane / controller for them also.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 12:44:54 AM by Fionn » Logged

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knighty
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2015, 12:56:06 AM »

might it be easier to have your SI turn on a contractor, which powers up a mains fed motor, which turns a generator, which feeds power into the SI ?

or will that fall fowl of the no mains connections rules ?


100amps at 48v is only 4.8kw, which would be pretty easy to do with a motor/generator combo

that way you could feed power directly into the generator connection of the SI, and let it control all the charging etc... which could be easier once everything is on the mini grid and not connected direct to the batteries ?


- I'm assuming the SI can control charge current via the generator connection, so would have better control of the battery charge/state, and would also use as little power from the mains as possible - which would be nice if the batteries just need a quick top up before the sun comes out ?


motor/generator don't sound very efficient, but 80%+ should be pretty easy ?
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camillitech
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2015, 05:54:49 AM »

might it be easier to have your SI turn on a contractor, which powers up a mains fed motor, which turns a generator, which feeds power into the SI ?

or will that fall fowl of the no mains connections rules ?


100amps at 48v is only 4.8kw, which would be pretty easy to do with a motor/generator combo

that way you could feed power directly into the generator connection of the SI, and let it control all the charging etc... which could be easier once everything is on the mini grid and not connected direct to the batteries ?


- I'm assuming the SI can control charge current via the generator connection, so would have better control of the battery charge/state, and would also use as little power from the mains as possible - which would be nice if the batteries just need a quick top up before the sun comes out ?


motor/generator don't sound very efficient, but 80%+ should be pretty easy ?

Now, that's what I call 'lateral thinking' Knighty  Grin

Seriously though, unless the laws are radically different from here CM, methinks there shouldn't be an issue with EDF and a connection to 'AC in'. Now bear with me here, I'm not having a go, and you are the man in France. However, I'm guessing that France is full of canals, barges, boats and boat yards. I am also guessing that the Studer Xtender, Victron Multiplus and a dozen other inverters are NOT authorized for connection to EDF, just like in the UK. However, in the UK, it is perfectly legal to connect these to the 'AC in' (gen input) for battery charging and load sharing. Or have I got it wrong yet again  banghead Just seems mad to me not to use the SI as a charger, it's  one thing that it does do really well  Grin

Good luck, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 9kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2015, 08:31:20 AM »

Paul, If the SI is not approved in France for connection to the Main EDF Grid then that's that, I do not want to poke a stick into the French proverbial Ants Nest, France is France it is not England.

What we are presently doing is beyond most folks comprehension or reasoning. Why?

One day I will try explaining the whole concepts here regards the Business/relationships with the general consumer public here in France, its very different to the UK.

AS regards the SI charging system, yes I will allow the SI's created Mini Grid to backfeed when there's plenty of excess power to the SI chargers own internal charger, so the SI charger will be used, but not from a Outside AC Source.

Perhaps my jottings are as clear as ditch water?   
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 09:13:03 AM by clockmanFR » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2015, 09:00:29 AM »

Dear other Forum members and folk New to the World of Renewable Energy Creation.

Hopefully after reading all this topic you will get some idea of the unnecessary messing about that is required to achieve a REAL Working system that for us is a Small Community Project in Rural Normandy, France that has 6 different accommodation dwellings/Gites basically a small village, that is being done in a cost effective way and on a shoestring.


Hi knighty, Thanks for the ideas, its the separation as you describe for the isolation, but again its the actual install of yet more gear, and I am desperately trying to keep things simple and minimal costs.
Regards your chargers, well I will still use them if its the last resort, but I will need to rehouse the internal bits. But first I will try the Eltek as its very compact and easily housed, but..........
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2015, 09:07:23 AM »

Hi Fionn,

Thanks for that Info on the Eltek.

Blast, I thought that this basic machine would not want messing with by outside control systems, aaaaaggghhh.

I will fire the machine up and see if I can manual set it, and see what happens.

 


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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2015, 09:12:50 AM »

No problem.
It will probably be set to 54V output as this is standard in telecoms applications so it will run away happily at that voltage anyway. For what you want you're really only missing the ability to modulate the output current and voltage etc which may not be a great concern. If you want to only use it as a bulk charger for diversion purposes it will probably do the job fine. You will just need to use another charger once in a while to boost charge for equalisation. The 13.5V / pack output is optimum float voltage for the sealed lead acids type batteries typically used in telecoms.
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