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Author Topic: Info Please on ELTEK SMPS 5000 SIL V3 48v/100A, Mains 230vac Charger  (Read 20189 times)
Fionn
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« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2015, 06:57:25 PM »

I would estimate Heinz all  Smiley
But seriously its not possible to say from what you've posted.
Has your multimeter a uA range?
0.3v across 24 cells is not a lot of draw on those tiny batts.
I'd say it would take a few months before it would run down your large bank.
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2015, 07:14:10 PM »

Run down my big bank, aaaggghh     Shocked

Fionn, are you trying to get my Heart to stop, don't listen to Fionn my precious babes.......  Grin

Okay just a quick maths, 0.048a x 51v = 2.488 watts. x 72 hours = 176.256wh, or about 60 watts a day,.  Sad
say 35kw battery bank, that's about 586 days before the Eltek would drain my Babes.

Is my maths okay?
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2015, 07:23:12 PM »

Okay just done a re-test.

The Eltek is constantly pulling 0.003 amps.

So 51v x 0.003 = 0.153 watts, x 24 hours = 3.672 watts a day.

Yea, I can live with that drain.  extrahappy
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2015, 07:56:49 PM »

Nooo!  Cant be both!  3.7 Wh/day or 0.2W continuously.  One or the other - you choose!    Grin

RAB
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2015, 10:05:49 PM »

Cheers Rab,

But I can live that low loss, until I get a decent DC 100a relay.
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jonesy
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« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2015, 10:21:31 PM »

Nooo!  Cant be both!  3.7 Wh/day or 0.2W continuously.  One or the other - you choose!    Grin

RAB
I think I'll vote for watt day.  It's a bit like it used to be with the fuel price in gallons.  The price went so high, it wouldn't fit the display.  The way electricity is going up in price and consumption, we'll need watt day (tm)
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Fionn
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« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2015, 04:23:50 PM »

Strange that the contactor you got wasn't rated for continuous duty.
I just received a 100A normally closed one, hoping it is rated for continuous, albeit the coil will only be energised once low voltage cutoff is reached.
Hoping to use it for LVLD on my nissan leaf bank.
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jonesy
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« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2015, 04:40:41 PM »

Strange that the contactor you got wasn't rated for continuous duty.
There are so many variables.  110/230V transformers (cheaper ones, but still expensive!) are usually rated 20 mins on/40 off.  I noticed my mower is the same, strimmer etc.  A UPS with a small battery is never fully rated, as it only runs on full load for a few mins. 
A contactor used for a winch (which CM bought) doesnt need to be continuously rated, so the coil can be cut down in size, and it runs hot. 
100A DC contactors & switches are expensive.   Some are cheaper by rating.  Switches in particular are often rated as 'no break on load'
A lot of the top end contactors for AC are often DC rated too, but at around 1/10 capacity - Telemechanique is one.  The higher the DC voltage, the lower the current they'll switch.
If you can't find proper specs, keep looking.
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2015, 05:56:54 PM »

Fionn, I gave the seller negative feedback and he went nuts, the lad on the telephone was nearly in tears, good ploy that.

Although my mate Dimitri the wood man, Huge Old Volvo tractor and huge trailer with hydraulic arm grabber for putting logs onto the trailer unit, used it for awhile on his log hauling winch, and said, "Its Chinese S..it, the coil got so hot". At least it got tested on a real winch, before the coil burnt out with me. Although I see Dimitri is back to a mechanical switch once more, but personally I think he is a full blown nutter and he just likes the sparks.

Anyway DHL France just turned up and took the relay back to the UK seller, at least I got my money back on this failure.
 
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Fionn
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« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2015, 03:04:53 PM »

Bit of an update from my end.
The seller has confirmed to me that the coil on my contactor is suitable for continuous duty.
I haven't tried it out yet but will do.
This is the one I got:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Factory-direct-sale-High-quality-DC-12V-100A-dc-contactor-with-micro-switch-for/1330758_32217159086.html
Mine doesn't have the microswitch but the listing I bought seems to have been replaced with this one.
I just specified 48V and normally closed when I ordered it.
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jonesy
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« Reply #70 on: May 05, 2015, 08:52:43 PM »

If you use that relay at the maximum current and max volts it will not last many cycles.  The data sheet will state the approved maximum power - the EN or UL rating and further derating if it's not a resistive load. A typical 100a contactor at 24v will derate to around 4a at 100v.  Add a bit of inductance and you're down to around 2a.
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Scruff
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« Reply #71 on: July 06, 2015, 01:49:03 AM »

Ha small world! This was one of my first hits when I googlated 60V SMPS.
Hope you don't mind me diverting this thread CM? I though it'd be more rude not to seeing as I'm stealing some lots of your ideas.  genuflect
The winch solenoid you are having issue with is an Albright knock-off. The genuine articles are rated for full load and more with reduced duty cycle. The relay you are after is http://www.albrightinternational.com/files/downloads/catalogues/DC88P-1000.pdf

I've got me an Eltek lekytronic box for pretty similar porpoises.
I've included some nudey photos for anyone interested. I could have got a newer 1.8kW 4% more efficient one for much the same price except I took a gamble on the efficiency being higher on the lesser module as it'll spend more time at full load.  Undecided That and as a rule I like passive cooling.

My punning clan for the Eltek is to use it on Economy 7 feeding PV harvest shortfall through the array's own TriStar. As such it makes a very inexpensive state of the art 4 stage programmable 48VDC 20A charger on idle gear. I luv TriStars me lovefirefox
There's no economy by the way... Roll Eyes I'm under no illusion...smps efficiency + battery charge efficiency + inverter inefficiency, that's most of the budget spent out of the gates  Embarrassed)

My agenda is hang 1.5kW PV to supply the lighting and base load and what have yous of the house. So far I've only achieved adding a 40W base load with a charger on float service.  facepalm I'll have it floating on photons soon. fingers crossed!
My Eltek is listed >91% typical at 230VAC, 53.5V output and full load. >80% at 20% load.
I haven't got the technology/imagination at the moment to test it at full load. In float service coupled with the Tristar it's 10% efficient. I thought this was pretty abysmal so I rewired my bank to 12V and put a Silver Alloy charger on it and low and behold that was 10% too but with worse load compensation. Roll Eyes

I've hatched this as a plan over the last few days although it's just a draft. I may stick a choke between the Eltek and the TriStar. I may also run a separate 12VDC panel/battery/supply for the control circuits instead of buck converters...or maybe that's silly... Undecided.
Please point out any mistakes yee see.



[Edit: clearer in PDF]


That's a hellova lotta switchgear  whistlie...I too foresee DIN rail shortage issues.

How do yee veterans earth yer artificial grids? I suppose it depends a lot on the inverter isolation. But what's the common practice?

Our existing system is TN-S


 
Lekytronic porn;















« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 02:46:52 AM by Scruff » Logged
Tinbum
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« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2015, 08:30:21 AM »

I use a number of those Eltek chargers and they are great. They do get quite warm though. I switch mine with an Arduino that diverts my excess PV and have found that the orange relay on the pcb doesn't like it and so I've replaced it with a socket and now use the same type of relay with contacts made with a different material. I also use the smartpack 2kw chargers.
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jonesy
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« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2015, 11:31:48 AM »

I'd say there's no point having the 30A mcb on the panels as the s/c current can never trip it.  Remove it and the isolator and replace with a fuse carrier and say 30A fuse to give a cheap isolation.
Never earth through a relay.  You have no way of knowing that it ever got re-connected unless you install earth monitoring.  Relay contacts tarnish and go high impedance.  If you were on grid, the prospective Isc would blow the relay apart on a serious fault. There is no reason to ever remove earth from an appliance, so just bond it all together.
The dotted line between N & E on the inverter needs to be solid and clearly labelled.  Also be sure to label the mains changeover as having 2 sources.
Replace 20A RCBO with 100ma RCD & 6A type B MCD. 30mA RCBO's for others, to give discrimination, else a socket fault will kill the lights too.  The Isc of the inverter will likely not clear more than a 6A mcb, or even 3A, so that's most diversity lost, but little you can do about that without fitting lesser ones downstream.
No real need to earth the panels.   SMA GTI's use earth monitoring on the floating inverter.  However, it wouldnt hurt to link 0V to earth with say a 1M ohm resistor.  This will remove stray current and prevent the panels from floating up - the various power supplies will move the + or - upwards to around 1/2 mains volts ie 110V through filter caps - just enough current to give you a feathery feeling.
Should the top left 30W SMPS be 48V, or the relay it feeds 12V?  Could you just use the Eltek to drive that relay?
What's the size/function of the diode - commissioning protection against incorrect battery polarity?  Needs to be absolutely enormous to clear the fuse.
IIRC the tristar 0V is a link, so connect the panel 0V to the star point? Not sure, as this may introduce unwanted current flow & noise towards the star.
Add wire CSA.
I'd be tempted to replace the SSR with a relay - personal thing.  If you keep the SSR you don't need a buck converter to go 48v to 24v.  The current input on the SSR is trivial, so 2 x 10k 1/4W resistors would probably do it.
As drawn the ammeter will only show charge current.
Nice scheme.

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Scruff
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« Reply #74 on: July 06, 2015, 01:24:04 PM »

Thanks for all that Jonsey.

I'd say there's no point having the 30A mcb on the panels as the s/c current can never trip it.  Remove it and the isolator and replace with a fuse carrier
and say 30A fuse to give a cheap isolation.

Yeah I've always wondered that, I put it there because I've seen them in combiner boxes. I don't like pulling hot fuses so I'll be keeping the isolator I think.
 
Never earth through a relay.  You have no way of knowing that it ever got re-connected unless you install earth monitoring.  Relay contacts tarnish and go high impedance.  If you were on grid, the prospective Isc would blow the relay apart on a serious fault.

Good to know. The relay I believe you are referring to is a centre-off clunkin' redundancy switch.

The dotted line between N & E on the inverter needs to be solid and clearly labelled.  

It's dotted because I'm not sure what to do with it. Is it correct? I'm sure that'll let the smoke outtov a cheapo centre tapped Mod. square waver.

There is no reason to ever remove earth from an appliance, so just bond it all together.

If I tie the inverter neutral to earth downstream of the grid earth neutralising point will this not make smoke? Even if not isn't this creating unsanctioned TN-C-S earthing?


Replace 20A RCBO with 100ma RCD & 6A type B MCD. 30mA RCBO's for others, to give discrimination, else a socket fault will kill the lights too.  The Isc of the inverter will likely not clear more than a 6A mcb, or even 3A, so that's most diversity lost, but little you can do about that without fitting lesser ones downstream.

Ah yes, righto.


No real need to earth the panels.   SMA GTI's use earth monitoring on the floating inverter.  However, it wouldnt hurt to link 0V to earth with say a 1M ohm resistor.  This will remove stray current and prevent the panels from floating up - the various power supplies will move the + or - upwards to around 1/2 mains volts ie 110V through filter caps - just enough current to give you a feathery feeling.

What kind of power dissipation does that resistor need?
Well I'm either going to cheap out and get a 500W inverter or possibly a Studer 2348.

Should the top left 30W SMPS be 48V, or the relay it feeds 12V?  Could you just use the Eltek to drive that relay?


If it was a 48V coil it could. Easier get 12V kit on the scrap market.
Ah well spotted yeah I was having trouble sourcing a 50A relay with a 48V coil for sensible money. So I went 12v to save 80 i'll rectify the plan.


What's the size/function of the diode - commissioning protection against incorrect battery polarity?  Needs to be absolutely enormous to clear the fuse.
IIRC the tristar 0V is a link, so connect the panel 0V to the star point? Not sure, as this may introduce unwanted current flow & noise towards the star.

Transient suppressor as recommended in the manual for protection against inductive loads. 60A 80V. I may rewire 24V later (like next house later) for DC power tools direct to battery Grin. 6 PV modules Vmp 30V each for flexibility.



Yurp, Common negative. The panels are connected to the 0V start point through the TriStar 0V bus. Re: noise it's a minor concern...need to get myself a scope then figure out how to filter it.

Add wire CSA.

I will on the final draft. Early days yet.
Voltage drop: panels to controller <2%
Voltage drop: controller to batteries <0.7%
DC meters <0.7%

The rest are max load current + 25%


I'd be tempted to replace the SSR with a relay - personal thing.  If you keep the SSR you don't need a buck converter to go 48v to 24v.  The current input on the SSR is trivial, so 2 x 10k 1/4W resistors would probably do it.

Why?
I'm not a fan of mixing voltages in the same panel/instrument. The SSR has zero crossing and is optically isolated between the 24VDC control and 250VAC switched load. I'd prefer that than rely on the isolation of an enamelled coil.
Good call on the resistor, thanks.

As drawn the ammeter will only show charge current.

That's all I want there, positive current = surplus, negative current = discharge. V with respect to charging amps = SOC....watt-hour meters both sides of the inverter.
I'd stick a Ah/SOC counter there instead but they don't bloomin' work and they're 10 times the price.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 03:38:50 PM by Scruff » Logged
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