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Author Topic: Earthing Solar Panels on a Steel Barge, with Victron and SMA?  (Read 6152 times)
Scruff
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2015, 12:50:33 AM »

If i did i'd have to run a seperate earth back to the main bond point.


The quick and dirty way would be to tie the frames to the negative leads of the panels assuming your -ive eventually goes to the hull at some point.

Or is this a big no no?
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al barge
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2015, 01:19:13 AM »

If i did i'd have to run a seperate earth back to the main bond point.


The quick and dirty way would be to tie the frames to the negative leads of the panels assuming your -ive eventually goes to the hull at some point.

Or is this a big no no?

I'm not really sure!? I guess it may depend on the solar controller..


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38m Belgian Spits Barge, Victron Multi 24/3000/70-16, 420Ah (c5) Used Forklift Batts, Smartgauge, DIY wood Stove, DIY diesel drip stove heat exchanger circuit, Spare roof space..
Scruff
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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2015, 01:26:34 AM »

The ground is usually common on a solar controller ie. PV ground = battery ground.
But if you have a break in the ground the panel frames lose their route to "earth".
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 01:28:28 AM by Scruff » Logged
al barge
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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2015, 01:39:35 AM »

I guess with simple solar charge controller it's probably fine to bond the panels to ground, but on a HF transformer with galvanic isolation built in or one with clever earth Impedance detection etc i wonder best practice for a conductive boat?

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38m Belgian Spits Barge, Victron Multi 24/3000/70-16, 420Ah (c5) Used Forklift Batts, Smartgauge, DIY wood Stove, DIY diesel drip stove heat exchanger circuit, Spare roof space..
billi
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2015, 05:05:51 AM »

Quote
I'm still feeling it would be better just to have one charger on the batteries looking after them, as it's possible with future proofing an MPPT (of either type), we could have up to 12 x 250w panels eventually, meaning 125a peaks of charge at the same time as the Multi putting 70A into the batts if the genny got turned on, ignoring load diverters etc.. sh*tfan

Hi,

Why ? would one  run the genny , when  PV is on full blast ? Anyway , the chargecontroler then will throttle  down the PV , when Batt volt reaches Absorbtion set-point  ...,  but  in absobtion charge the genny should stop and the PV for free should carry on

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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
al barge
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2015, 12:01:16 PM »


Why ? would one  run the genny , when  PV is on full blast


The genny is on shore and shared between the whole site with four boats, so it can be turned on at any time by others, although normally just 5 hours in the evening. I'm trying to reduce our share of the diesel and overall time it's on. I could probably tell the Multi to ignore genny input during daylight hours, but then some days solar may not be enough, and both combined could boil the batteries on the good days for a simpler MPPT controller. I'll have another look at the Multi's controls and see how it could be set up...

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38m Belgian Spits Barge, Victron Multi 24/3000/70-16, 420Ah (c5) Used Forklift Batts, Smartgauge, DIY wood Stove, DIY diesel drip stove heat exchanger circuit, Spare roof space..
dickster
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2015, 12:08:03 PM »

Perhaps an additional safety feature would be to sleeve the panel frames and rack in plastic channel?
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billi
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2015, 12:20:55 PM »

OK, i see ,  and your Battery is (excuse me ) small....

Surely , the Victron can be adjusted to allow only a few AMPs  charging with shore power and if battery full from sun , to ignore the genny  Smiley

The last outback FM 80 MPPT  i have is a good unit , Midnite classic would be another i would consider , the Victron MPPT perhaps only cause  in communication  with the Inverter  (?)


Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
al barge
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2015, 12:33:12 PM »

OK, i see ,  and your Battery is (excuse me ) small....


Ouch!  Smiley But yes, it was an emergency purchase dictated by funds when the industrial unit next door changed hands, and new owner refused to sell us power  Angry

Surely , the Victron can be adjusted to allow only a few AMPs  charging with shore power and if battery full from sun , to ignore the genny  Smiley

The last outback FM 80 MPPT  i have is a good unit , Midnite classic would be another i would consider , the Victron MPPT perhaps only cause  in communication  with the Inverter  (?)


Billi


I'm not so sure the Victron MPPT has a justification for me over an outback/midnight or GTI..

@ Dickster, thats an interesting idea, but i'd guess in mist or rain the plastic wouldn't do much.. Thats even if my fears of being electrocuted touching Solar panels are even relevant!?

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38m Belgian Spits Barge, Victron Multi 24/3000/70-16, 420Ah (c5) Used Forklift Batts, Smartgauge, DIY wood Stove, DIY diesel drip stove heat exchanger circuit, Spare roof space..
Nickel2
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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2015, 01:07:49 PM »

It may be worth contacting your Hull Anode suppliers about this one, they will be a lot more familiar with boat/shore power-supply-grounding, and may be in a position to advise. The last thing you need is a solar-powered battery eating holes in your hull!
N2
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24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
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Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
Scruff
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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2015, 04:07:31 PM »

I guess with simple solar charge controller it's probably fine to bond the panels to ground, but on a HF transformer with galvanic isolation built in or one with clever earth Impedance detection etc i wonder best practice for a conductive boat?



Oh yeah, sorry I was thinking DC coupling.  fight
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al barge
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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2015, 04:44:03 PM »


Oh yeah, sorry I was thinking DC coupling.  fight

Well working on the pro's and cons of AC couple or DC, I guess DC coupling a separate bond back to the central point may be necessary, but as you say, it could be disconnected in a failure or at the DC isolator if just linked on the MPPT's neutral.

@ Nickel2  I think most anode suppliers would just say buy more anodes! bike 

Maybe there's a Victron installation paper on their solar panels, I'm not the first to stick em on a conductive boat within easy human contact..

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38m Belgian Spits Barge, Victron Multi 24/3000/70-16, 420Ah (c5) Used Forklift Batts, Smartgauge, DIY wood Stove, DIY diesel drip stove heat exchanger circuit, Spare roof space..
Scruff
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« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2015, 05:08:48 PM »

..for my 0.02 worth, I'd DC couple them.
So it's DC to battery and AC on demand to loads. I can't see it being more efficient to invert the entire PV output to satisfy the base load and then rectify it back to DC to charge the batteries.

As Billi pointed out you're not cycling the batteries if you put a load on the PV while it's generating.
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Scruff
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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2015, 05:26:40 PM »

i build speakers in my workshop, which can add quite a bit to the consumption with power tools etc.


..natch...(thanks rogeriko  Grin)

What about a 24VDC workshop? Anderson sockets direct to yer Banners?
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Billy
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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2015, 05:35:05 PM »

You will be pulling 120+ amps at the full Victron output so will need 3kW+ of solar to minimise battery use but you have the space.  But it's not often or for long that we use max from the big blue box.  My 880W PV make a massive difference and we can heat water on a sunny day (500W immersion).  Two kW PV would just do us fine I reckon, need a bigger barge.   Grin
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