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Author Topic: Recharging the ground  (Read 20288 times)
Edislaw
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« on: April 01, 2015, 08:03:55 AM »

The B&ES recommend that, "If possible it is beneficial to recharge the ground in summer." preferably using a simple pumped rather than heat pumped system an  give as an example "circulating water around an underfloor heating system and (indirectly) passing that heat into the ground".

I have read elsewhere that reversible heat pumps are not MCS approved. Since a heat pump uses electricity whichever direction it is pumping using it to recharge the ground must serve to reduce the CoP. I see, however, that there is benefit to be gained from returning energy not being used in the home to the ground. Is it fanciful to direct solar energy from a PV array to a heat store and set up a loop which circulates the hot water produced but not required for heating or domestic purposes to the ground?

Does this mean that the correlation between ambient temperature which leaves the ground temperature in Southern England two or three degrees higher than that in Northern Scotland indicates that the ground is capable of storing heat at higher temperatures? Extrapolating that thought, if recharging the ground could raise the temperature by ten degrees then a system with a maximum running temperature of 45 degrees could then run at 55 degrees? Alternatively, if the system only needs to raise temperature from 20 degrees to 45 degrees does that mean it could run more efficiently and reduce costs?
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gravelld
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2015, 09:30:14 AM »

It has been done, also using solar thermal. Check out the Peveril Solar House. Also see Tony Cowling's house which doesn't use a heat pump.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 09:55:45 AM by biff » Logged
biff
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2015, 09:54:43 AM »

Errr,
   I will keep an eye on this thread. We used to have some very exciting debates on this same subject,
   Bearing in mind that different soils have different compositions and different water contents  and the water can be rising and falling and consequently spreading out to surrounding areas.
   We had one champion of this same idea and,,and,, we need to be careful folks. freeze
                                                             Biff
   Sorry Gravelld, but that one is out of order,!! very far out of order.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 09:57:02 AM by biff » Logged

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Tigger
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2015, 10:13:44 AM »

Ha ha, oh yes, I remember that thread  extrahappy
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A.L.
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2015, 10:34:44 AM »

hello and welcome,

- using a circulating pump to cool a house with ufh is possible and if the house is also heated by a gshp then it would be sensible to dump the heat with the groundloop. I would not attempt on a domestic scale to raise the temp of the ground with summer heat above its natural level with the intent of storing the heat for winter use. The heat losses are too high and the financial gains insufficient.

- Tony Cowlings house is a serious attempt to build a (almost) no heat house http://www.tonyshouse.cowlings.org.uk/

- IMHO The Peveril Solar House is a publicity stunt.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 10:56:02 AM by A.L. » Logged
gravelld
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2015, 10:42:49 AM »

Sorry, I actually didn't include the link in the first draft of my post because I was aware of some "beef", then reconsidered because I was trying to be helpful.
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biff
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 10:48:51 AM »

No Problem,
           I was thinking it might have something to do with today,s date, hysteria
                  Not a bother, fingers crossed!
                                    Biff
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 11:23:53 AM »

Err, yep, I was also aware of the date and thought someone was possibly having a larf......
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gravelld
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2015, 11:29:49 AM »

LOL! Good point.

While we're at it, what do people think of roof mounted turbines...?  fingers crossed!
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dhaslam
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2015, 11:34:02 AM »

and don't forget  the  old favourite

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-29126161
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bxman
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2015, 01:05:43 PM »


Hi

Welcome to the forum

If you have not yet got your Heat pump         have a look at Earth Tubes  they cool your house at the same time as recharging the ground  apart from that I know nothing  but suspect the additional costs may not justify the benefits never the less keep up the research and hopefully we will all  learn something.
 best of  luck   
cheers  Patrick
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phoooby
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2015, 02:32:30 PM »

A Sainsbury's not too far from me has just put a system in to store heat from fridges and use it to heat the store. They had a big drilling rig in the car park for some time; gives the locals a idea of what fracking is about!. Was there yesterday and all that is now visible is a few large manhole covers and some new tarmac where the pipes run into the store. All they need now is a roof covered in PV to power it all.

http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/business/11799564.Sainsbury___s_is_installing_ground_heat_pumps_at_its_Kempshott_store/
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 01:09:28 PM »

Rocks are not very good insulation, it takes 65 metres of limestone to equal one metre of polyurethane.    It would be better to  build an well insulated tank under the car park.       
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Fionn
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 01:42:00 PM »

I think the decrement delay of the limestone would also work in it's favour though.
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 06:31:09 PM »

Doesn't work with ASHP's though. I've been putting heat into the surrounding atmosphere for years, but none of it seems to have come back in a useable form.
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