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Author Topic: Carrying traction batteries?  (Read 6861 times)
skyewright
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« on: May 06, 2015, 03:44:09 PM »

Looking at pictures of the classic 2V traction battery cells I can't see any handles? Am I missing something?

Carrying a tall, smooth sided, object that's heading for 50kg, full of sulphuric acid & needs to be kept upright is probably interesting enough already without there being nothing to grip!

The thought came to me of a custom built open sided box/caddy as an aid but I'm not sure if it's something I vaguely remember or something I made up.

What do people do?
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David
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camillitech
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2015, 04:23:54 PM »



What do people do?

Well I've dropped a few,



to be honest, it's one of the reasons I chose Rolls 6v batteries. Seriously though, I've strapped them to a 'sack truck'



and even a welding trolley, on reasonable surfaces. However for places where you cannot get these I've put one either side of a quad on the foot rests and held them in with my legs.

I have seen a special tool for carrying car batteries in my yoof, it was like one of these with rubber pads instead of spikes.



Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
skyewright
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2015, 05:44:14 PM »

to be honest, it's one of the reasons I chose Rolls 6v batteries.
I'd noticed the handles on those. More of a carryable shape too. The Rolls have quite a few attractive aspects.

Seriously though, I've strapped them to a 'sack truck'
Got one of those.  Grin Probably be fine on a smoothish surface provided it could be kept fairly upright?

I'm thinking an open fronted (& top) box made of sarking board, with builder's band for extra strength, especially at the bottom, a rope handle either side, and a couple of straps across the open front, might allow a clean lift for a carry across rough ground? Unless someone can suggest better?

PS. No batteries exist yet. The whole idea is still all at the theory stage, but the practicality of getting batteries from the likely point of delivery to the shed has to be considered...
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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
billi
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2015, 06:17:11 PM »

hi , as far as i know one can  make up a handle that can be screwed into the cell poles  to lift them and carry around
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knighty
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2015, 06:52:20 PM »

hi , as far as i know one can  make up a handle that can be screwed into the cell poles  to lift them and carry around

that's what the guy who changed my forklift battery fitted :-)
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biff
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2015, 07:10:55 PM »

Yes billi,
        The same handle pulls them up out of the tank as well. If it were me and the distance was 100yds on hard ground, I would strap them to a 2 wheeled trolly like Paul has shown. Taking care to move them slowly and upright,especially if they are senior citizens.You also need to put them down gently because they will distort and belly out if you drop them on their ends hard.
  In their former life they were encased in a tank and held tight. So If you do not have the tank,you could make a wooden frame out of 3 x 2 to drop down over them half way down and hold them together. Your can fit your ply wood box between the frame and the batts.
  Your final connection has to be away from the Batts, so that you disconnect before you do any moving around and then when you are finished connect up again always away from the Batts. I am talking about moving cells and working on cell connectors. And of course you tape all your spanners with insulation tape , like Paul does.
  The reason the cells are housed in these steel tanks is because if a cell shorts out and explodes, it goes straight up but does not cause a chain reacton..(the blast usually blows the fire out) The really do go with a terrible bang and can go up through a roof very handy.. So for safety sake, You keep a full barrel of water handy that you can reach in a hurry. even if you only get the acid on your hands, you plunge them into the barrel.
 If possible, use the steel tank if you can.
                                                 Biff
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billt
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2015, 09:42:51 PM »

The reason the cells are housed in these steel tanks is because if a cell shorts out and explodes, it goes straight up but does not cause a chain reacton..(the blast usually blows the fire out) The really do go with a terrible bang and can go up through a roof very handy.. So for safety sake, You keep a full barrel of water handy that you can reach in a hurry. even if you only get the acid on your hands, you plunge them into the barrel.
 If possible, use the steel tank if you can.
                                                 Biff

I am glad that I've abandoned the idea of FLAs! You can easily carry the LiFEPO cells as well!
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skyewright
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2015, 10:28:51 PM »

I am glad that I've abandoned the idea of FLAs! You can easily carry the LiFEPO cells as well!
I'm still uming & ahhing, but the above is not engouraging me towards FLA, at least for classic 2V traction cells. Delivery of large items hardly ever gets closer than by the roadside because of the steep narrow driveway. From there it's 60m horizontal & 10m vertical (down) to the potential battery shed. The first few metres at the top of the driveway is 1 in  4, then the slope eases off a bit, from the bottom of the drive there's a path (still sloping)with a couple of sharp bends, then off the path for the last few metres to the shed, incuding a step down then back up.
If a traction battery arrived as a full pack, the first thing I'd need to do would be to dismantle, then move, then reassemble! The Rolls 4000 series 6v batteries would be much simpler, but then, as you found, you're well on the way to spending as much as for a much more convenient (in the short & long term) LiFePO4 pack with similar useful capacity!

More thinking required...
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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
biff
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2015, 11:10:58 PM »

My sincere apologies for somehow discouraging you from installing the forklift pack.
                                       I was only trying to make you aware of the dangers. Once you know the dangers involved, you can take all the necessary safety measures in confidence.
 The main aim is to not create sparks of any kind ,especially when the pack is under charge.
  I have used Agm banks, Yousa Slea,s but the forklift cells are the best we have ever used.
                                                                                       Biff
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2015, 09:16:00 AM »

My sincere apologies for somehow discouraging you from installing the forklift pack.
                                                                             

I don't think you're discouraging at all Biff, he's just getting all the facts and trying to pick what's best for his situation. This battery business is a serious issue so best to do all your research and buy what best suits you.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
neanderthal
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2015, 09:22:06 AM »

 Hi skyewright - (and thanks for your response to my anemometer question - i am pursuing that)

My first 24v traction battery was 12 loose cells. I wiped them down and hoiked them one by one into the back of a landcruiser. I strapped them together and drove 100 slow miles to as near to the battery shed as I could. Over the rest of the day i carted them one by one, with a 1/2hr rest between each, to their new home (about 50yds) without putting them down on the somewhat uneven terrain. I was younger, stronger and more stupid then. If I had tripped.....

Within the week the front of my shirt and jeans had literally rotted away. I would never treat batteries in such a casual way again. Plan ahead and try not to allow any opportunity for catastrophe......

Other than the moving of them they are great...

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skyewright
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2015, 10:12:39 AM »

I don't think you're discouraging at all Biff, he's just getting all the facts and trying to pick what's best for his situation. This battery business is a serious issue so best to do all your research and buy what best suits you.
Spot on Paul, & thanks to Biff for highlighting some of the issues.  neanderthal's bit of history is useful too.

FLA aren't ruled out yet, but best to have a good idea what you're taking on & have a plan before it lands at the top of the drive (possibly in the pouring rain, in a gale & with the next bit of shelter in a SW direction on the other side of the Atlantic - okay so I'm exaggerating, but only a bit...   Grin)!

Horses for courses as they say. What I'm doing is studying the form.  Grin Grin

If I go the FLA 2V cell route, it looks as though transport would be cell by cell with each cell popped in the case I have in mind (tailor made, 3 sides, a bottom, couple of straps across the front, handle each side, & preferably carried between 2 people). What to do if the pack arrives in foul weather is an interesting one to plan for...

That's an awful lot of phaff compared to carrying a few fairly robust, more conveniently shaped, plastic boxes, each a quarter (or less) of the weight of a 2V cell, and more likely delivered by van rather than truck & so more likely to get dropped off at the bottom of the drive (so the carry is half the distance & a third of the height).

Swings & roundabouts. Horses for courses. Moving them isn't something that you'd hope to do very often!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:15:34 AM by skyewright » Logged

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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
biff
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2015, 10:46:20 AM »

  Years ago,
        I was negotiating the purchase of forklift and packs from two brothers who ran a business in electric forklifts. They were sound kind of characters and ran their business from a big hayshed beside the family home. They noted my laid back manner,regarding the batteries and could see that I had no experience of forklift cells, So they took me into the centre of their hayshed and pointed up at the tin on the roof a good 20ft at least above my head and asked me to guess what the big dent in the tin was. (Sounds deadly) Then one of them explained.
  They were working below on a forklift truck. They were replacing a cell in its pack. The pack was disconnected from the forklift and the cells were all flooded with rainwater up to the top. The cells were connected with lead straps (no bolts),so they drilling down through the strap with a hole cutter when the dead cell blew, with a brother on each side of the forklift the cell took off like a mortar, straight up ,hitting the roof and showering the whole place with acid.
  It went ok, They had the water tank ready and one brother stuck the other into the tank, Apart from some little burns around their face and arms they were ok. Their clothes were burned away within the hour. They caught most of the acid from the chest up. They were still hosing each other down an hour afterwards.
 I noted that they got rather excited as they recounted the event to me and realised that they had been well and truly traumatised by the event which had happened a good 12 years previously.
 It was one of the best lectures I ever got in my life and made me very aware. They still had no idea why the cell decided to explode. (I suspect the spark came from the drill of course but the cells were all flooded and the top of the pack had been awash for a good while before the drilling started) They had done the same job dozens of times before without a hitch but this one just decided to blow. Their water tank saved them.
 I have two ton of the babies and when I give them a drink, I always talk to them and tell them that I regret not having dropped in sooner to share the bottle with them but all the same, I treat them with a lot of respect.
                  Biff
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billi
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2015, 11:50:51 AM »

.... as far as i know , one can purchase new   cells   without  electrolyte  and order that separately ....
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skyewright
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2015, 02:47:42 PM »

.... as far as i know , one can purchase new   cells   without  electrolyte  and order that separately ....
So I believe. The question then is what size containers does the electrolyte arrive in, and hoes does it affect the cost equation? An IBC arriving by the roadside could be almost as inconvenient! Then there is the fun of filling. Something to investigate.

I'd noticed that a "Battery Filling System " was listed in a quote you recently posted (http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24787.msg287380.html#msg287380). Was that for electrolyte? Edit: Answering own question (I think): A quick search suggests that it's an automated system for topping up with distilled/deionised water?

That quote also mentions an "Electrolyte Stirring System". Is that the "bubble" system? Presumably you consider that a worthwhile addition?

N.B. I'm not criticising your helpful suggestion. Nor am I looking for problems as something against FLAs or an excuse for not using them. I'm thinking of issues of the sort that happen when you live down a steep bank, 15 miles along a single track road, in a part of the country that most delivery firms would rather not be bothered with (but which we think is great)...  Grin
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 03:27:56 PM by skyewright » Logged

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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
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