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Author Topic: Carrying traction batteries?  (Read 6860 times)
V
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2015, 07:10:35 PM »

Mike carried our FLA's, but luckily the lorry had been happy to back up our drive. Since then we've had plenty that refused and we've ended up ferrying things in our car. But even with only 5 metres or so to carry the FLA's, Mike was exhausted by the end. (see how pleased he looks?)



Getting them to the barn was only half the battle. What we didn't realise was that we would have a problem keeping them upright while we assembled them into a battery 'box'. Several of them fell over. More than once!, We  improvised a support system with ropes and boards that required both of us. Hope you wouldn't be doing this on your own.

The battery 'box' was Paul Byrne's idea. He sold us the batteries. The idea was to strap them together with boards. This way, if we need to remove a faulty cell we will be able to get to it.

He did a drawing / plan for us, I can pm or post it if you are interested. The idea is that the ply panels are sized so they don't quite meet at the corners.








Do I remember a story of Biff buying a forklift and 'driving' his batteries into place? Would that work for you?
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20980.msg242204/topicseen.html#msg242204

V.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 07:27:34 PM by V » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2015, 07:58:18 PM »

Yes indeed V,
           That forklift is still parked in the same place, with the same cells behaving perfectly. It was one of my better moves.
                                                                               Biff
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2015, 10:38:11 PM »

Hi V,

Thanks for the comments. The picture of Mike is very eloquent!
What size cell is that?

Hope you wouldn't be doing this on your own.
I'm very used to doing things on my own, including moving heavy weights[1]. I'm not a big guy, but I'm a big fan of ropes, trolleys, levers, chocks, & various temporary "jigs". However for moving traction cells I'd get a neighbour along both to give a hand physically and as a matter of safety, & I'd expect to have arrangements ready in the shed for keeping things in order during assembly.

He did a drawing / plan for us, I can pm or post it if you are interested. The idea is that the ply panels are sized so they don't quite meet at the corners.
I think I have the idea from the image, but I'm sure a drawing/plan would be interesting.

Do I remember a story of Biff buying a forklift and 'driving' his batteries into place? Would that work for you?
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20980.msg242204/topicseen.html#msg242204
Not a chance I'm afraid. I drove plenty of forklifts & agricultural vehicles in my younger days, so that wouldn't be a problem. However, you'd not get a electric forklift more than halfway to the shed at best, & maybe not even that close (a delivery driver with one of those forklifts that hang on the back of a lorry once considered taking it down the drive, but bottled out at the last minute - I didn't think any the less of him for his decision).

[1]  We have a 300kg (estimated) feature rock in the garden that I "discovered" when I started leveling some ground. The bit that was sticking up inconveniently a few inches above the finished ground level turned out to be very much the tip of an iceberg! Getting that out of the ground involved some very big levers indeed, and a lot of chocks. Once it was all above ground level moving it horizontally to a more desirable location was relatively easy (more levers, & keeping it surrounded by blocks to control the possible ways it could move next). I don't think I'd have started if I'd realised quite how big it really was...  Grin
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David
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V
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 10:16:54 AM »


What size cell is that?

1 cell = 46kG 198mm x 119mm x 695mm high. 2 Volt cells, 924 aH (c10)



I think I have the idea from the image, but I'm sure a drawing/plan would be interesting.

Paul had suggested that we use 19mm ply for this 'box' and we had tons of 19mm OSB left over so we'd used that. Paul had also suggested we have them off the floor on a pallet. After seeing our photos he wrote:

Hi Vickie,


Real 3/4 - 19mm ply would be much better, much stronger than chip board. I would double this up with your existing chip-board for extra strength. It's hard to tell from the pictures but it looks as though the ply could be cut shorter as it is nearly meeting at the edges, also use the 4th strap and don't be scared to tighten. The straps you are using are very light duty, more luggage straps than the wagon type I was intending (the type with hooks on the end, however these may still work if you use the method detailed below.



Those photos are a bit old, I can take photos of the final version of the box if you want to see how we implemented this.

Not a chance I'm afraid. I drove plenty of forklifts & agricultural vehicles in my younger days, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Just a thought. If our lorry driver had been more typical of the deliveries we've had and left them at our front gate (!!) we could have brought them three at a time wedged between the front and back seats in our car. If they fall over they don't spill tons of electrolyte, but the caps have little holes in them and liquid does splash out. We checked and were ready to water them if too much had been lost.

Re: delivery - if you talk to Paul Byrne he may have some ideas. He was incredibly helpful. He seems to have arranged delivery to Spain and Portugal. I think a few people on this list have had batteries from him.

V.
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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 10:37:57 AM »

Those photos are a bit old, I can take photos of the final version of the box if you want to see how we implemented this.
The image make perfect sense. Plywood a bit short so the straps are pulling the cells together rather than being restricted by the board, and the extra layer smooths out the sharp corners, allowing the straps to tighten more easily/evenly (a few vertical battens would have a similar effect?). Maybe you'd like to start a new topic in the "SHOW US YOURS" section for pics of the working system?

Just a thought. If our lorry driver had been more typical of the deliveries we've had and left them at our front gate (!!) we could have brought them three at a time wedged between the front and back seats in our car. If they fall over they don't spill tons of electrolyte, but the caps have little holes in them and liquid does splash out. We checked and were ready to water them if too much had been lost.
I'm starting to wonder if the best bet might not be to arrange for delivery to my neighbours barn rather than straight here. Then we could transfer the cells to his trailer. That way we could do the work when it suited us & when the weather was fine rather than when the delivery happened to turn up. Quite possibly he could get his trailer down the drive behind his Discovery too, which would halve the horizontal carry & do more than that for the vertical. I'll see what he thinks of the idea...

Re: delivery - if you talk to Paul Byrne he may have some ideas. He was incredibly helpful. He seems to have arranged delivery to Spain and Portugal. I think a few people on this list have had batteries from him.
Thanks for the recommendation.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 10:40:46 AM by skyewright » Logged

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David
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 12:12:25 PM »


I'm starting to wonder if the best bet might not be to arrange for delivery to my neighbours barn rather than straight here. Then we could transfer the cells to his trailer. That way we could do the work when it suited us & when the weather was fine rather than when the delivery happened to turn up. Quite possibly he could get his trailer down the drive behind his Discovery too, which would halve the horizontal carry & do more than that for the vertical. I'll see what he thinks of the idea...

My 2 cents - I may have this wrong, re: whatever you mean by horizontal carry, but I would not consider putting these cells on their sides. The way they were delivered, strapped very firmly together in the vertical implies that you don't want them in the horizontal. The plastic case has a bit of movement in it and it is full of liquid electrolyte. If they aren't firmly pulled together with the straps they start to bulge. The plastic caps in the tops are just kind of wedged in and have two tiny holes in them. I think that piling them on top of each other in the horizontal might be a very bad thing.

But ask Paul.
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 01:23:03 PM »

My 2 cents - I may have this wrong, re: whatever you mean by horizontal carry, but I would not consider putting these cells on their sides.
Nor me.

We are down a steep slope. I've been describing the distance from the road as 60m horizontal & 10m vertical, but that's an average slope of 1 in 6 (at the top it's actually 1 in 4) rather than a flat walk followed by a vertical drop.

By the bottom of the drive, half the horizontal distance and almost 2 thirds of the vertical distance has been covered, so getting to that point by vehicle is a big advantage.

Come to think of it, flat then vertical would be a doddle, by comparison.  All I'd need would be a trolley and a winch, & I've got both of those. Grin
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 01:25:58 PM by skyewright » Logged

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David
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2015, 10:16:30 PM »

My forklift batteries were delivered by a medium sized truck with a tail lift. The delivery men used a heavy duty pallet truck to get them down my steep driveway. They were very well packed into a crate like structure made of pallets. It took me ages to cut the crate apart to get at the individual cells.

I then moved them single handed one at a time, strapping each cell onto a hand truck using bungies. I had to move them across a waterlogged rear lawn and I had to make two wooden rails across the lawn using wooden planks and balanced the hand truck on them carefully.

I then positioned them into their battery shed but the cell connectors would not fit my configuration of 2 x 6. The battery supplier told me the cell connectors provided only fit a configuration of 3 x 4 as that’s how they fit in a real forklift. It was a minor mistake but a hell of a faff moving them all again.


Looks good but wrong configuration !



Thats better.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 10:20:10 PM by nowty » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2015, 11:01:09 AM »

My forklift batteries were delivered by a medium sized truck with a tail lift. The delivery men used a heavy duty pallet truck to get them down my steep driveway. They were very well packed into a crate like structure made of pallets. It took me ages to cut the crate apart to get at the individual cells.

I then moved them single handed one at a time, strapping each cell onto a hand truck using bungies. I had to move them across a waterlogged rear lawn and I had to make two wooden rails across the lawn using wooden planks and balanced the hand truck on them carefully.
Thanks. Useful to know you managed to keep them upright enough on a hand truck (sack truck?), but I think my idea of "steep" may be a bit different to yours. No way could 2, or even 3, people hold back 600kg of batteries on a pallet truck (at least another 50kg, possibly more?) on the upper part of our drive way unless it had brakes, & once it got rolling they'd not stop before it went through the fence at the end & over a drop...

I've been moving slabs down the driveway this weekend on a sack barrow. The most I could safely control on the top part was 2 slabs at a time - & that's just 450x450x32's, so say 30kg? From halfway down I could have controlled twice that or more, but the top is where you start from...

However, if my neighbour's happy to have the cells in his trailer & to bring that down the drive with his Discovery, things look a lot simpler.  Grin
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David
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2015, 12:32:31 PM »

No way could 2, or even 3, people hold back 600kg of batteries on a pallet truck (at least another 50kg, possibly more?) on the upper part of our drive way unless it had brakes, & once it got rolling they'd not stop before it went through the fence at the end & over a drop...

I thought that too as my driway is very steep (especially at the top) and I thought if it hits the house its gonna take a wall out. But the delivery man said no problem and although he had no brakes and could only steer it, he could simply drop the crate slightly so it dragged on the driveway and that stopped it dead. So in effect that was the breaking mechanism and there was no drama.

My only advice is when you move each cell, just take your time.

Hand truck = Sack truck
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 12:39:42 PM by nowty » Logged

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Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2015, 02:07:20 PM »

I thought that too as my driway is very steep (especially at the top) and I thought if it hits the house its gonna take a wall out. But the delivery man said no problem and although he had no brakes and could only steer it, he could simply drop the crate slightly so it dragged on the driveway and that stopped it dead. So in effect that was the breaking mechanism and there was no drama.
Ah. I see. That makes perfect sense. A gentle squeeze of the release on the hydraulics & the crate provides its own braking system. Neat & practical.
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David
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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2015, 06:38:09 PM »

Rope, tree/car, etc. One person steers, the other regulates descent by slackening or pull-tightening the rope-turns on the brake capstan. (tree-trunk/tow-hitch).
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« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2015, 07:03:09 PM »

Rope, tree/car, etc. One person steers, the other regulates descent by slackening or pull-tightening the rope-turns on the brake capstan. (tree-trunk/tow-hitch).
Good suggestion. That's essentially how I got a substantial (~100kg?) rock down the drive a little while ago, using several fence posts and the gate as temporary capstans at different stages to lower the sack truck (rope attached low on the truck).  Grin

The rock used to be on the sky line, about 50m above us, but one day appeared by the armco on our side of the road, having jumped a sheep fence & crossed the road along the way. . Shocked Two other slightly smaller rocks had hit the sheep fence & been caught before reaching the road. It may or may not be coincidence that a small group of geology students were seen climbing up to where the rock used to be not long before it was found by the road. In over 20 years here we've never know any other noticeable rock fall from there (the rocks aren't loose).

As it's a very characterful bit of fissured limestone, it's now found it's way, more carefully into our garden.  Smiley
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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40°, WSW, Lat 57° 9' (Isle of Skye)
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