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Author Topic: Grid Hopping  (Read 62149 times)
todthedog
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« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2015, 08:09:50 PM »

I've put on a hat so I can doff it in your direction!
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Scruff
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2015, 08:46:47 PM »

Thanks Todd,

Found out today the Masterbus hub won't let me program the charger. Such a proprietary device is 170  banghead
Spent half a day trying to make one. It's just a bloomin' Serial to TTL...no success...seem to have broken the off switch fiddling with the EEPROM. Until I fix that too off is the new on.  facepalm

{EDIT}:  Grin Think I fixed the off switch, It's behaving now I put the lid back on, methinks it may have been a MOSFET with the gate held high. Perhaps grounded through the chassis. Lid was isolated for tinkering.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 09:02:01 PM by Scruff » Logged
biff
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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2015, 09:51:40 PM »

Good pics Scruff,
                  I am just getting my head around them. I gather that the mosfet on the bottom right of the last pic is the blown one, ?
                                                                                      Biff
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Scruff
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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2015, 10:22:25 PM »

No nothings blown. The last pic is a sneaky CapXon electrolyic they hid in the nethers of the analogue board. Seems like the bean counters got a shoe in. They're reputedly the worst most unreliable electrolytics in production. I posted that in the "there's always one" sense. It's a stark contrast using them surrounded by Nichicon and Rubycon electrolytics and Microchip ICs

I spent the day trying to build this as an add-on to an FTDI USB to serial I use to program TriStars. http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?s=73157f93f968eb2fea395b9e2d303255&showtopic=41770#entry759902

The idea is it it bucks the serial signal down to TTL thresholds. It was just a suggestion by SmileyPete though, not a working solution.
It wasn't working for me and I really ought to get an O-scope for that sort of thing. I'd much rather spend the big bucks on quality test gear than proprietary plug-ins.

It's all tickety boo at the moment pending further testing. Next thing is a clunkin' battery isolator switch. The inrush off the Mastervolt caps charging is blowing chunks off my cable lugs every time I commission it despite being turned off.

The power switch is a soft latching transistor job, it was being odd when it was isolated ( stood on a cardboard box beside so I could probe the logic board. Happy out when it's all together...I think it's just wired through the case.

I don't think I damaged the EEPROM chip, probably just sent some noise to it. No magic smoke escaped, no blow holes, traces and resistors are tippy top.

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Scruff
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2015, 11:54:18 PM »



Mark II USB to QRS232

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jonesy
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« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2015, 11:25:48 AM »

Manufacturers will sometimes invert the rs232 (at TTL) so a normal usb/ttl won't work.  With a DVM check the TX line.  Should be +5 at idle.
The other thing to check is the board logic level.  If the chips a 3v3, avoid a 5v converter as this can toast the board.
I got my SMA converter schematic from hi-res pictures that showed all the chip numbers and both sides of the board.
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Scruff
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« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2015, 12:44:13 PM »

I think I'm having one of those days, just put the laptop back together after my mouse and keyboard sat down on me.

This is the chip http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/max232cpe-rs232-transmitterreceiver-fd92a
The pinout on SmileyPete's schematic is inverted.
I just followed the traces until I found a PIC.
It's a Microchip pic16877a
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/39582C.pdf

What's a 3v3?
I tried this in the Mark I but it ran a mite hot..hopefully I got away with it. The charger is working fine at the factory setting with temp compensation.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/max3232cpe-3v5v-rs232-transceiver-dt26d

The caps I'm using are too small turns out, I've 0.1F where I should have 1F, I'd blame my eyesight but more likely it's my multiplication. There's a man from RS with a bag of gubbins on the way to remedy the situation.
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skyewright
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« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2015, 02:16:47 PM »

What's a 3v3?
Another way of writing 3.3V, I believe.
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David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
Mostie
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« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2015, 05:49:18 PM »

Mr Scruff, not sure if this helps but here's a ttl for 3.3 or 5v
http://picprojects.org.uk/projects/simpleSIO/ssio.htm

then there was the Navi Soladin interface
https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3529.0.html

if the drawings gone, i may have it saved somewhere.
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jonesy
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« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2015, 08:53:32 PM »

877a - that's quite an old pic.  Usually used at 5v but is specified for use at 3.3v or 3v3 (as skyewright says) if the voltage on pin 1 is 5v then it's running at 5v - it's the reset pin, but it's easier to access than the 5v supply.
If the max232 is running hot you are really abusing it, but maxim stuff is usually bullet proof. You can easily test the maxim by opening a real term serial session on the laptop and looping back the rx rx pins on the max232. Ensure local echo is off and check for typed characters on the screen.
You sure you're not on the in circuit programming pins (1, 39, 40)
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Scruff
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« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2015, 11:05:22 PM »

Thanks Mostie will have a beard scratch on those links in a bit.

There's a difference of about 100 between a soladin and a mass sine rs232 to qrs232, I'm suspicious that the only difference is for yacht owners to find reassuringly expensive. They're asking insane money for a shunt too...that's just a big resistor  Roll Eyes

Manufacturers will sometimes invert the rs232 (at TTL) so a normal usb/ttl won't work.  With a DVM check the TX line.  Should be +5 at idle.

Hrm I'm getting millivolts between Tx and ground, outtov the serial dofer.

If the max232 is running hot you are really abusing it, but maxim stuff is usually bullet proof.

The 3232 I had some oddball high readings ~6V between pins which is what I meant by hot. I pulled the plug and changed the chip soon as I noticed and inspected the board for damage.

You sure you're not on the in circuit programming pins (1, 39, 40)

Rx and Tx are routed through a surface mount 1kΩ resistor each to pins 1 and 40 but they're inverted according to SmileyPete's schematic. The only other wired pin is ground which is common to battery ground. I didn't wire Vcc on the Mark II because it looked like it wasn't wired, come to think of it It may have been traced from the other side of the board.



You can easily test the maxim by opening a real term serial session on the laptop and looping back the rx rx pins on the max232. Ensure local echo is off and check for typed characters on the screen.

Hrm interesting...bittova learning curve.

Righto I think it best to proceed with a little more caution than marmalading untested circuits into the big expensive shiney box of tricks.   whistlie
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Nickel2
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2015, 12:01:41 AM »

Just had a look at the schematic for the MAX 232. I'm not familiar with the animal, but it does give a bit of an idea of the function.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=max+232&biw=1280&bih=896&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIxp-d_ILrxwIV5GrbCh2jOQyy#imgrc=xRhYXcxZzeed-M%3A

N2
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EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
jonesy
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« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2015, 10:04:16 PM »

If you are connecting to pins 1 and 40, the connector is for in circuit programming with a dedicated programmer and not rs232. The 877 is Rx on 26, tx on 25.
I think we are on cross purposes with the word inverted.  I mean logical inversion, so a 1 is made into a 0.
The max 232 has a voltage doubler onboard, so you will find around -10 and +10 ish. Ignore the internal goings on inside the chip.  There is a logical inversion, but that is normal for rs232.
Try tracing pins 25 & 26.
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Scruff
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« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2015, 03:42:43 AM »

Thanks for the plumbing advise gents this requires thimpkin'. faint

I'm galaVantin'!
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camillitech
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« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2015, 07:01:45 AM »

Brand spankin' shiney new, RRP extrahappy
How could I resist!


Can I AC couple this without frequency shifting? GTI into genset input, inverter in gen. support mode and dump loads on the battery?




Morning Scruff,

excellent stuff but sadly most of it is over my head, though I am learning, regarding the 'AC coupling' but bear in mind I'm no sparky.

So long as it's not transformerless and your input does not exceed the charger capacity then you should be OK. You will however need to make sure your Tri Stars and dumps can cope with whatever you're adding. Don't think the genset input is the way to go though (most GTI's require to see a 'grid' ) unless you are using just solar, normal practice would be the AC bus.

Chances are if you contact Mastervolt they'll say no, I did it with a Trace years ago and they said a big NO, went ahead and did it anyway and all was peachy.

https://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/commissioning-the-powerspout/

Good luck, Paul
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 07:57:49 AM by camillitech » Logged

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