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Author Topic: Grid Hopping  (Read 62781 times)
jonesy
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« Reply #135 on: March 08, 2017, 04:17:07 PM »

He has 'slowed down' Jonesy, not heard from in for two nights now, was missing my morning fix of 'tales from the loft'  Grin

D'you think we should call someone to go over and plug him back in?
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camillitech
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« Reply #136 on: March 08, 2017, 04:29:32 PM »

He has 'slowed down' Jonesy, not heard from in for two nights now, was missing my morning fix of 'tales from the loft'  Grin

D'you think we should call someone to go over and plug him back in?


Either that or put another coin in his meter  Grin
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Scruff
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« Reply #137 on: March 09, 2017, 04:16:52 AM »

Blimey Scruff, slow down. I've been away 2 days and I come back to war and peace in colour.





He has 'slowed down' Jonesy, not heard from in for two nights now, was missing my morning fix of 'tales from the loft'  Grin

Haha I sped up gents...KO'd after an all day-night-dayer

Biff I shoulda listened to you, you were right...shoulda retreated...
Well..err...I got her back together...few parts left over....quite a few shall we say...she's a shadow of her former self...alas....



ralph


The XTH lapsed into a comma I'm afraid to say. She's gone dodo. Someat is awry mighta been the ultra-sonic, mighta been the reflow, mighta been too much point heat...Either way the outcome is I've an open circuit and a no-power up issue, no schematic and right fed up a prodding this thing.

I've emailed the nearest Studer Authorised service centre asking for a quote for a replacement mother-board, I'll email Studer themselves for a schematic, and if nothing else prevails I may start an attempt to reverse engineer the blighter but at this point I think time spent working to buy replacement parts will be more fruitful and better for my mental health than trying to troubleshoot something as sophisticated as this brute.

I suppose we ought to go back to Monday where I last left off and our adventure became a tale of woe...

I went about recap-ing the boards on the grounds that electroytic capacitors have a finite lifetime. The longest of these being 6000 hours at their rated operating temperature. Not very long in inverter always on time. Thing is you need to take them outtov circuit to test them...if you're taking them outtov circuit is it worth putting 10 year old caps back in?



My trusty gas iron wasn't able to desolder the first one I went for...a teeny tiny 50V 10uF. The ground plane was killing me...much the same as the TriStar, power lekytronics are built like copper dunnies...




What the...!?!
This thing is spec-ed for 400°C! Scoundrels.  fume

damn this I went to the local rip off merchant for a new iron that happened to be on sale that day and turned out the sale price was cheaper than everyone else sells if for too!



Ohh....er...righto... facepalm
I guess then that Uni-T thermocouples aren't as compatible with Fluke as err I thunked..d'oh.

Oh well they do make a fine pair of chopsticks.



After a few hours of that craic I got right fed up and thought there has to be a better way.

So I opened up the electric and cranked her up to 11.



Bare in mind that thermocouples have a logarithmic response so this was hot!!



Enough to melt the thermocouple hot....and still struggling in places.
Next time I'm gonna preheat the board like the experts keep saying.  fight
I killed the heating element in the iron after 8 hours.  facepalm
...actually quite a nice iron, she's back in business and dialled back to 6 now.


Many hours later I had both the motherboard and FET board recapped with superior electrolytics comparatively tested.
I found only one failure in the lot. A low end panasonic 16V 50uF.




Hadta lie these down cos they live under the brain that hangs on the headers.



Later that day I reassembled the XTH after a final clean, and nothing.....not even smoke which I thought was a bit rude...never had something not work that didn't explode before... Sad



« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 10:49:27 AM by Scruff » Logged
Scruff
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« Reply #138 on: March 09, 2017, 05:17:22 AM »

The temperature sensor could be a simple diode. Reverse biased they make a very cheap, simple and fairly accurate sensor. That lead out of the toroid could be a sensor, or a once only go/nogo sensor.

I asked a proper electronic engineer to have a look and he reckons it's a thermofuse. Which having looked at the AJ makes sense, as they're both no resistance.

Does it have a resistance to the primary/secondary?  That could fit in with the darlington.

I'll have a look next month. It has a ground and a iirc 560Ω to the darlington common out.
I've taken my motor outtov dry dock and I'm living outtov that off grid style for the rest of the month. The house system project isn't a massive priority I spend half the year off grid already.
I may give yous a tour of her electrical system one of these days if I have some time to post.
It's a bit embarrassing given the standard of execution of installation...trouble is it works so bloomin' well there's no good reason to pull it apart to add a few compression glands, conduit and tidy it up.


1 UPS I have got a bit warm (aka I could smell the varnish and it was melting)The internal sensor went s/c. I cant replace it as it is inside, so it's now a 10k resistor and a large warning notice.

Yurp I thought about doing something similar but I thought it'd be better offset the temp reduction to a less than ideal location and fit a new sensor as close as I could get with kapton tape.


Those resistors need inserting, I'd say.  They don't look like dry joints (so might have dropped out). Manufacturing defect.  I'd be tempted to send the pic to Studer
and ask for QA comment

Both myself and my EE friend agree. Wave flow process failure.
Good idea...I think I'll use it as a bargaining chip to get a schematic outtov 'em.


Earth strap. Please tell me you have a 1M resistor in the plug top, else you are angling for a proper belt across the heart. Or fit it to an ankle, but be prepared for it to trip you up!

Whadya take me for...some kinda cowboy, circuit bending, hack? Don't answer that! Of course there's a 1 MΩ in there... Roll Eyes

Ladies and gentlemen as a token of my gratitude and esteem everyone who has purchased an ESD safety armband from me is getting a free lekytronic project kit!
It contains lead free free lead solder, a 1 MΩ resistor, heat-shrink, a cable tie and a stylish resealable bag!



and behold our latest innovation!

Cheap-a$$ meter fuses.
How many of you have spent more on HRC fuses than most people spend on multi-meters?
Why do you need a high rupture capacity fuse rated for medium voltage when yer gonna blow the bloomin' thing on extra low voltage every time?
Roll up roll up....Well-err...look no further I have the fuse for you...
Fits all standard Flukes and other posh meters!




You can get the proper thing for £1 from china with the resistor built in. Hmm, unless that is a small clip and a small loop of wire.  Grin

Jonesy...shhh...man's gotta eat... Undecided


Bracing for criticism.  Does the back box need earthing?  I have since lugs were fitted, but the screw heads pick up earth from the socket. IIRC light switches dont earth the heads.

Lights are different, they're not metal, they live in the air and they're not so user interactable.
Need earthing I think not...unless my neighbour goes for a Darwin award setting shelf anchors with an SDS.

However...
Was a contractor paid to earth it? Is he lawfully obliged to earth it? Did he do the rest (some clamped some loose)? Did he sign off on having done it?

How tired do you think I get of being told to hire a registered contractor to carry out electrical works because I'm only legally allowed to fix the job after him?

Did I mention it's a ring main? fume fight
...before my time..


Are you still using lead solder?  I went lead free last century, but avoid the fumes anyway.  I keep a roll of leaded around as it melts at a lower temp and flows better.

Yurp.


I use trichloroethane or MEK for flux removal or IPA if I don't want my fingers to melt. Acetone aint bad and comes in 1L bottles for 1€ here.
I can't imagine where that unit was installed for that dusty layer. Was it conducting, or just carp from a self destructing fan.  The fans should be installed to suck in the air through a filter, then the exhaust will push warm air out of any available orifices. Do it the other way and you suck in carp through gaps.

IPA was flashing white krudd and sticky staining.
Ever been in a metal fabricators? That kinda filth. Grinder dust and atomised metals, sticky in places.
Fan was operational but it had as much travel on the Z axis as the X and Y. Well they were suckers not blowers.

eblaggers that lie about products really get my goat;

Scumbags....

Quote from: Ebay C$%t


Item condition:
For parts or not working

“removed from an old off grid installation, was working before we removed it, untested since.


this auction is for a used and untested 6kw 48v inverter charger from Studer. Includes battery temp sensor and controller.

Studer make some of the best quality inverters on the market. This Swiss brand are well known for the quality.
Taken from another website that sells these new..
We removed this unit from an off grid house and upgraded it in capacity terms. Before this was removed it was working without any issues and if more capacity was not required I'm sure it would still be there. "

It's from a company most people would recognise that has all the usual not fit for purpose Chinese tat and car batteries with leisure stickers.




Nice use of the back light.

Yeah...depends on how double sided the PCB is...a lottov the time the rearside trace blocks the light turns out.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 06:33:25 AM by Scruff » Logged
Scruff
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« Reply #139 on: March 09, 2017, 06:03:35 AM »

So how's the £2.20 AJ I hear you ask?

She's a beauty. New lab isolation transformer, and 48V -> 12V LVD chargerifier.



Filters



Control



FETs



Control, Other Side



Spare Fan



Here's my guerilla setup or now




I have big plans for this soldering station. It's getting a 12V DIN plug for 12VDC power in, in addition to it's existing mains option, a barrel jack for fume extractor fan power, a boost reg. for the heater and a buck reg. for the electronics. Then I'm taking a BNC off the traffo for scoping inverters with a 10X reduction.



Scope probes to the traffo 26V with the soldering station plugged into the inverter so it's transformer output is isolated, 10X reduced and echoing the inverter sine. Measuring here instead of the inverter output direct is much better for O-scope health and longevity. Iron heater is off because the iron is disconnected.


Inverter, No Load Waveform




72% efficient @ 33% load




Fine peak for a smalley, yer can tell a good inverter by her peaks....




Filthy CFL noise and power factor...I don't blame the inverter



Holey Cow
What a gizmo it runs a 710W brushed motor! Why that's amazing! It defys science I tell ya!  genuflect



..or maybe it's a 235W saw with a big number on the sticker... whistlie



70% efficient @ 80% load
94% listed by the way... police


Voltage sag and bounce motor starting.



7W No load
(12W listed)

4W Fake Off (soft off button (drops to 1.2W after a while))
(implied 0W)
0W hard switch off (breaker)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 11:28:48 AM by Scruff » Logged
biff
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« Reply #140 on: March 09, 2017, 09:38:35 AM »

Aww Scruff,
               Im dizzy with this porn,,I want to run out to the shed and get cracking on something similar My sick 2kw x  120volt inverter that gave up the ghost a few weeks ago awaits my caring hands.
Methinks 120volts might be a tad lively for a beginner, sh*tfan but I could maybe just work on it with one hand inside a wet rubber glove and keep the other in my trouser pockets next to my family treasures. Think of the excitement.
                                      Biff
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Scruff
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« Reply #141 on: March 09, 2017, 11:11:03 AM »

The trick is to not be the circuit Biffer.
Good luck with the inverter.  fingers crossed!
Possibly try one thing test, try something else, test; would be the best way to approach.
A lottov time you can smell or see the problem.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 11:41:11 AM by Scruff » Logged
camillitech
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« Reply #142 on: March 09, 2017, 03:12:31 PM »

Cheap-a$$ meter fuses.
How many of you have spent more on HRC fuses than most people spend on multi-meters?
Why do you need a high rupture capacity fuse rated for medium voltage when yer gonna blow the bloomin' thing on extra low voltage every time?
Roll up roll up....Well-err...look no further I have the fuse for you...
Fits all standard Flukes and other posh meters!


 banghead

Just paid about £25 for five wasn't my money right enough but it hurt all the same. Nice work Scruff.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Nickel2
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« Reply #143 on: March 09, 2017, 04:11:28 PM »

My Fluke 75 had the 'Seaward' type probes fitted with 500 mA HRB fuse in each leg, until I forgot them and tried to measure 6A DC. They now have ordinary glass quick-blow fuses for a tenth of the cost.
More attention is now paid to ranges and intent before use.
N2
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
Scruff
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« Reply #144 on: March 09, 2017, 06:38:00 PM »

Glass ones explode with over current at higher voltages (~600V) hence the reason for the HRC.

I done my last having two sets of probes and two meters on the go..current meter got the voltage probes.  sh*tfan  facepalm
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Nickel2
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« Reply #145 on: March 09, 2017, 09:05:54 PM »

At the time they were a £ each and I was skint, but there was a drawer-full of glass ones at work. This post reminds me that they should be changed one day  whistlie
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
camillitech
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« Reply #146 on: March 09, 2017, 09:33:03 PM »

I gotta say Scruff, I'm seriously impressed with Studer inverters. The old XPC's were badged well under their true capacity  genuflect My mate has been running a huge property on one that says it's a 2200W continuous for years. It has no problem whatsoever running his washing machine and an old house with 5 bedrooms. As he's even more remote than me and used to let the place out I installed him another smaller one as back up. He's never actually needed it in ten years but even that one ran the washing machine and I think that one was only rated at 1600W continuous. My only gripe being the poor menu, manual and programming logic. Methinks the newer ones have vastly improved on that front but they're now rated like most other inverters, ie not continuously  Roll Eyes
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Scruff
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« Reply #147 on: March 10, 2017, 12:03:15 AM »

...but they're now rated like most other inverters, ie not continuously  Roll Eyes

But they do do what they say on the tin. Ahem!..Power Jack...cough  whistlie
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camillitech
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« Reply #148 on: March 10, 2017, 06:35:03 AM »

...but they're now rated like most other inverters, ie not continuously  Roll Eyes

But they do do what they say on the tin. Ahem!..Power Jack...cough  whistlie


Sorry Scruff, should have said ' but they're now rated like most proper inverters'  hysteria
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
jonesy
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« Reply #149 on: March 10, 2017, 01:42:31 PM »

Glass ones explode with over current at higher voltages (~600V) hence the reason for the HRC.
That's why I just solder fuse wire between the terminals  Wink
38swg 5a
33swg 10a
28swg 20a

Only applicable for copper, not tinned
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