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Author Topic: Grid Hopping  (Read 82437 times)
TT
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« Reply #300 on: December 14, 2019, 09:34:17 AM »

Looks awesome.

Can I ask what the extrusions are?
They look interesting!
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Westie
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« Reply #301 on: December 14, 2019, 11:51:33 AM »

Beautifully built Scruff, may I ask what the application is?

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« Reply #302 on: December 14, 2019, 09:52:25 PM »

Bosch Rexroth TT.
I didn't bother with the proprietary connecting hardware. You can channel pan head M4 and use self tappers on the flat.

It was supposed to be a flagship of a fleet of conventional generator dominating power providers.
For hire and reward Westie. She owes me a lotta dough and I intend to get it back outtov her.
What isn't the application? Indoor approved, 25dB, doesn't use fuel, smells great, near-zero idle consumption.
Ohh how I laugh when I see lads pulling strings on two-stroke engines.

The ApprenticeVolt lets the side down. Bittova prime lemon mover. I've had to invest in 2 mains solid-state control relays and a MS relay driver to work around it's shortcomings.

It's a 3k inverter charger combi.
Supposedly that would make it a pere at least on pricepoint to a Studer.

The Apprenticevolt being high frequency is sporting a 400 B-type RCD on it's output and a switched PE.

A low-frequency inverter only requires a 30 RCD and can have a permanently wired earth.

Low frequency has double the surge sustained for 30mins not 0.5s.

The ApprenticeVolt charger will not power the inverter. So if I plug a filthy generator into the input the ridiculously expensive power filtering capable inverter has a nap while the filthy genset powers the load and the charger. So it doesn't UPS...I expect if it did it'd have more warranty returns because it's working harder?...call me a cynic.
The ApprenticeVolt programmable relay only operates as an alarm in conjunction to LVD so you cannot maintain power to load.  The relay will not operate until after the inverter shuts down. Thus making a problem it could have prevented by say starting a genset.
It's not 2.5kVA it's a 10A inverter.
2.3kVA @ 230Vac
2.5kVA @ 250Vac

The status LEDs don't work/are misleading at 60VDC (and arguably 48v also)
The charger derates @ 57VDC
The sense accuracy is 5% Shocked
The charger over-reads charge ~2A
The High Voltage Disconnect feature isolates the load (inverter: responsible for voltage sag) but not the charger( the only bloomin' possible source of high voltage in the unit)  fight
It occasionally turns off for no reason.  wackoteapot
Over-temp alarm facilitates fault condition power cycling.
The charger is not a three-stage it's constant voltage.
It has no sense terminals. They just expect you to use 240A cable on a 50A appliance.
 
My Combi came with a 180 proprietary modbus interface.
I ponied up 180 for a proprietary serial interface to interface my computer, to an interface, to another interface to something that could have been standard in the first place.
This is what my hard-earned won me the illusion of choice to do.




ApprenticeVolt recommends a 6mm earth which ought to light up nicely with a DC fault current in the order of 100A across it before rupturing the recommended 80A Fuse.


What is the matter with the charger?
Well, it's designed to charge according to time not tail current.
Much like the Dutch like to fill their petrol cars by the hourglass instead of the litre.

It has a predefined current ramp in absorption

like this



What I need is this



It can't do it and ApprenticeVolt do not answer direct questions about why not.

What it does do is CV to the highest setpoint with diminishing current. And ignores all other values except min time(??).
When asked about this ApprenticeVolt say it's very old so even though it's still on the market I ought not expect so much.
Ironically these are not new difficulties.

I can charge the battery in 90mins to 2 hours with 28amps (out of advertised 35A*).
Any way I automate it with ApprenticeVolt hardware I ended the test. 80% not achieved in 10 hours.

What I've had to do is set bulk to 65V and use a MorningStar relay driver to turn off the mains feed externally when it's charged.
MorningStar is also handling LVD, HVD, Lo-temp, high temp, cascade (soft) startup, Critical disconnects.

If it was lead I could do without 500 of safety switchgear. If it was low frequency it'd be better, stronger and 370 less switchgear.
If the inverter worked as advertised I could do without 400 of control electronics.

ApprenticeVolt's advice was to buy more overpriced unsuitable hardware that wouldn't solve the problem. lovefirefox

I've been having better luck refurbing Studers. I just clean them, replace the fans and they never stop.
I've just finished resurrecting a 1.2kVA that holds 2kVA 15mins ....I stopped the test rather than replace a master fuse.



The battery is under-rated and has active balancers. It delivers 3kWh to the load, this aperture is automated from a 4kWh battery.

You know how I'm gonna make millions producing these? I'm one of the few who can make off-grid hardware work through the mountainous haze of marketing BS and conventional unmetered opinion to build hardware capable of 100% duty.  ballspin
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 11:43:51 PM by Scruff » Logged
biff
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #303 on: December 15, 2019, 12:44:34 AM »

 Scruff,
   There is no doubt about it, You are my long lost cousin.
 I can tell by the way that you fix everything into the limited space. I just knew that I had an Identical twin cousin  somewhere  doing great things..
  If you need help to put it running correctly , well you know,, I AM ALWAYS HERE,, , You know of course  I am clueless about things that spark and shock but I can provide a great round of applause when you conquer it.
       Biff
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
Scruff
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« Reply #304 on: December 15, 2019, 01:03:01 AM »

Blimey Biff I just thought of something! It'll need a smiley face/sad face diagnostic readout!
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Scruff
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« Reply #305 on: April 20, 2020, 12:41:51 AM »

All a bit ho-hum lately...

Anyone measure their empirical efficiencies yet? Is soft griding making any cents yet/ever gonna?

In defence of batteries with useful applications here's some of the rest of the fleet.



300VA trinket with a blue box in the back I'm too embarrassed to display...external 12v battery.




1.2kVA 180Ah @ 24v SLA




2.2kVA, AC Coupling combi, demountable, external battery.






1.2kVA 150Ah @ 12V LiFePO4

Haven't really finished any of them but they're all performers in their own rights.

Current project;



440Ah @ 12V
90A (tested..like a fact not a number off a box) alternator draw
600Wp PV
1.2kVA


What's that?
Oh yes our products do 100% rated without melting anything, cr@pping out or giving up at the futility.

No, that's not normal..
What is?
20% > 60%?!




Oh yeah and we measure our gubbins so we can improve it...and flag the BS as it arises at every corner...

Here didja hear the one that 35mm thin wall cable is 240A rated? Has anyone ever tried it? ...continuous?... sh*tfan

 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 06:01:00 AM by Scruff » Logged
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« Reply #306 on: April 23, 2020, 02:31:48 AM »

Many a time I've called a motor factor disingenuous on ratings...you know, I buy a 30A automotive relay when I want a 10A relay.

A guy shows me his 1500W inverter and I show him my 1200W inverter.



Well now they're taking the P#*u t$.

I've said before the off-grid industry is regulated by the user's ignorance and lack of imagination.
I'm after contracting an awful dose of over-rated under-wired cable.



So my 35mm is actually 25mm.
Not 240A but 170A.
70C rated jacket.

If I put 170A continuous on 25mm I get thermal runaway.
Indeed, if pull under rated load I exceed rated temperature.






170A continuous done her!

Anyone wanna hop aboard a class action lawsuit? All too busy?

The link on the left is genuine 35mm I bought at an electrical wholesaler, the link to the right is Mikey Mouse joker camper cable I bought from an Ebay seller, who allegedly supplies to VW, the PSA Group, the NHS, the Fire Service and thousands of other meters a month they imparted to me in a rebuttal by way of a reproductive gland comparison discussion on the scientific merits of how they couldn't possibly be deceitful.



What's that? Oh installer probably forgot to tighten the terminal you say? Hrmm...cranked! You can tell by the dimple..



If you can't prove it, it's not true. Don't believe what you read.


I understand manufacturers have to lie about efficiencies, charger fidelity, peak versus continuous output (neither being true usually), relays, contactors terminals, sine (square) wave nature, meter accuracy all that..and I deal with it..
I will not stand for lying about cable gauge.  fume
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 09:27:07 AM by Scruff » Logged
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« Reply #307 on: April 23, 2020, 02:57:32 AM »

Ps Sidebar. I've a 600 120A branded (does 90A) Pewter Power Products battery to battery charger I'm using as a current limiting device because the 40 cable and contactor solution I installed for redundancy is just too tenacious for your average user who won't monitor their alternator temperatures in traffic in hot towns. Next time I'll save my customers money and make it more shyte outtov the gates.
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Scruff
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« Reply #308 on: April 29, 2020, 10:03:44 PM »

I'm taking a break from melting cables at 150A in the interest of taking accountable parties to task.

I've plenty of better things to be doing.

It comes up again and again; The question, "How do I recover my neglected abused Lead Acid"

Here's the answer I've been using successfully for a decade.
Put it on a Morningstar controller and leave it there for a month.

Ain't rocket surgery.



The Shunt is redundant it was for an ApprenticeVolt meter that I decided was better off in the E-waste than lowering the standard. Sense lines are on standby for a genuine product.
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Scruff
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« Reply #309 on: April 29, 2020, 11:39:44 PM »

Solar Photo-Sensing Socket



If you hack the solar side of a GTI anti-islanding relay you can enable a Solar Online Socket.

Use a relay if your GTI is a bit feeble like mine and you don't want to use its internal PCB as a fuse.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 11:48:22 PM by Scruff » Logged
Scruff
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« Reply #310 on: May 04, 2020, 10:02:11 PM »

First patient went from dodo under load for two months neglected  Cry to tippy top inside a month.



I had her roll over in the bed for some hire stock to snuggle up.



If you plug a second battery into a Sunsaver LVD Terminal and dial the LVD up to 26.4V & LVC 26.8 all of a sudden you have a split charge system with zero extra hardware cost.



ANL fuse on the Gels is configured as an electrical and mechanical fuse orientation.
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Scruff
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« Reply #311 on: May 06, 2020, 07:34:01 PM »

What's an electro-mechanical fuse?

Glad you asked.  Grin

It's one that ruptures with either electrical stresses or mechanical stresses.



It blows trad style from overcurrent and use your noggin' style from mechanical stresses.
ie. if the ratchet strap slips off the battery and one of the 60kg 12volts fall off the wheely dolly then it'll pull away from the forks of the ANL or just break it at the bridge and open the circuit.

No especial need to insulate the centre tap because it's negligible potential difference across the bridge and a spanners throw from anything that is.

This will not brick the charge controller either from isolating battery before solar as the starter battery is on the battery terminals and the gels are on the LVD terminals.
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Scruff
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« Reply #312 on: May 07, 2020, 06:52:33 AM »

So I'll bet yer all wondering what's going on with the melted fuse holder?

I bet Scruff ef'ed it up but he's not telling us?

I'll give you the moral of the story before the story.
In the off-grid, wild west, industry we have going on, one has to I've decided, derate everything.
Nothing is sacred not even cable nor fuses.
There's no watchdogs and marketing is taking the wee.

See a 200A ANL, midi and mini anl running at just under 200A is a 25W heater. Fuses get hot then they pop that's their job.
200A x resistance = ef loads of heat.
That's why there's gold plated fuses for the task. Except China saw the opportunity to make golden coloured zinc-plated fuses. That hit 110C at full load in minutes.




So I built me a custom heat sinking fuse holder.



Hot enough to fry an egg on she gets too!



So ok kids don't use 200A fuses on your 200A circuits...you've been warned.


Now why is my 240A cable 50C?

Well if you spend a week searching the internet for a datasheet that doesn't exist, threatening manufacturers and suppliers for the truth and consult the inner circle of electrickians, electromancers & electronicalists smarter than you average bears you can piece the puzzle together.

35mm auto cable is 30.1mm if you get a datasheet spreadsheet and pi r squared the strand diameter by the number of them.



Then never trust the tunts measure it yourself, and voltage drop load test it, and ID measure it and weigh it and melt it while you're at it...



Golly now it's 25mm so 170A rated...

Now about that datasheet that was never published...well IEE say 25mm is ~130A cable



But 25mm welding cable is 170A at 85% duty for 5 minutes then allow to cool to atmospheric.

So they wrote 170A on the jacket....well 240A because it's supposed to be 35mm

Righto I'll be pulling all that cable out then...



..and replacing it with 40mm...

...that has 50mm written on it.

100% duty...not an easy thing kids.

And everyone thinks I'm such a cynic... Roll Eyes

At least the meter I fitted and mechanically calibrated tells the truth...otherwise how the 'ef would I know?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 07:13:12 AM by Scruff » Logged
TT
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« Reply #313 on: May 07, 2020, 11:26:38 AM »

all a bit worrying for those that buy from online suppliers, must admit that i buy cheapo midi fuses from aliexpress/ebay.

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Mostie
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« Reply #314 on: May 07, 2020, 04:32:49 PM »

Damn, i thought you had built an ejector seat into that Sprinter  whistlie

..... not only that, it looks like you got a 25mm crimp onto a 35mm cable  Tongue
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