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Author Topic: An end to FIT for solar panels?  (Read 6448 times)
Sprinter
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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2015, 10:33:52 AM »

Sooo a lot can happen in a few days....

We have been saving hard for solar for a while now as we think it will reduce our costs both now but more importantly when we retire meaning there will be more money around at that time to enjoy our retirement better, any income generated would be a welcome bonus, as would be any carbon reductions.

But we didn't quite have enough money, we was only around 1k short, what i didn't mention when i wrote my earlier post was that i had an accident on my Ducati on Friday which i somehow walked away from with a small scratch on one ankle and some stiff joints (non of which was bad enough to stop me having an evening on the beach fishing last night).

The insurance company have written the bike off and made me an acceptable offer for the carcass, i was considering buying it back and parting the bike out or repairing it but in light of this thread i have decided to take the cash which will give us enough to order the system sometime in the next week once i have worked out how to cash in some work related shares., so with a bit of luck in the next three weeks we will join the solar generation era.

Shame about the bike, but the outcome is positive if you look hard enough for it   fingers crossed!
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brackwell
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 10:50:57 AM »

Different type of electricity?

Well i know it is laymans speak but it is essentially correct.

I and others have been saying for ages that you cannot compare intermittent generation with generation that is controlled.  Solar,wind have their place in reducing pollution and co2 but otherwise has one major weakness -it is not 24/7/365

Up to now people have been able to bury their heads in the sand but King Canute did not manage and nor will others.  The likes of Germany and Spain have managed so far by exporting the problem of excess renewables to other countries even if at zero cost.  What happens when all countries have significant renewables and excesses at the same time?   Our ability to export our problem is limited by the size of the interconnectors AND the ability of the said countries to absorb our excess. ie dont put any money on it.

The use of nuclear present and future can only make the problem worse because it also cannot be controlled in reality to the degree it needs to be.   In fact if it was not for highly controllable gas to be able (economically and without damage) to ramp up and down at speed we would have a bit of a problem.  This is before cost etc of nuclear.

Ken

Ken
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JohnS
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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2015, 10:52:34 AM »

Solar Trade Association say that subsidies are not needed.

Jonathan Selwyn, a board member of the STA, told the BBC that government support had been "absolutely instrumental in the industry's success" over the past five years, and that the industry was "tantalisingly close" to being able to operate without any subsidy.

To me, tantalisingly close is as good as saying that they are not needed but we are not going to admit it and we shall take any subsidy that we are given.

John
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billi
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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 11:18:12 AM »

Different type of electricity?

Well i know it is laymans speak but it is essentially correct.

I and others have been saying for ages that you cannot compare intermittent generation with generation that is controlled.  Solar,wind have their place in reducing pollution and co2 but otherwise has one major weakness -it is not 24/7/365

Up to now people have been able to bury their heads in the sand but King Canute did not manage and nor will others.  The likes of Germany and Spain have managed so far by exporting the problem of excess renewables to other countries even if at zero cost.  What happens when all countries have significant renewables and excesses at the same time?   Our ability to export our problem is limited by the size of the interconnectors AND the ability of the said countries to absorb our excess. ie dont put any money on it.

The use of nuclear present and future can only make the problem worse because it also cannot be controlled in reality to the degree it needs to be.   In fact if it was not for highly controllable gas to be able (economically and without damage) to ramp up and down at speed we would have a bit of a problem.  This is before cost etc of nuclear.

Ken

Ken

true , but we should encourage  storage ideas  to be developed ,    accompanying renewables  ,  to level them towards a    24/7/365   ,   and it works  Wink
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 11:20:35 AM »

Ken,
'export' exists in many forms.
I am all for many, many more higher capacity interconnectors,
(UK excess wind power could be filling Norwegian pumped storage),
but a smarter grid could 'store' our excess wind power locally.

Anyone with a hot water tank and an immersion could, and almost certainly would, take some power if offered at only the cost of transmission,
offsetting later gas use, (assuming a domestic gas boiler).

All those regional supermarket depots could run the cooling system to store some 'coolth' in the floor slab for later.

I'm looking forward to the time when mixed substrate solar panels are as cheap as roofing tiles,
and
there is a couple of days (essential) electrical usage in a battery pack in the garage,
but there is no reason, beyond the entrenched fossil fuel-based power suppliers and an unheeding, supine, political class
that stops a smarter grid allowing every Watt of renewable power to be put to productive use.
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Ted
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 11:52:56 AM »

DECC have today announced consultation on the closure of the RO to <5MW PV from April 2016 (with a grace period for projects already in progress). This is similar to the closure of RO for >5MW PV from last April.

I would now expect them to also consult on closure of FiTs for similar projects (stand alone up to 5MW PV) as it would make no sense to leave the option open for the projects being denied RO to accredit under FiTs.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/changes-to-financial-support-for-solar-pv
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brackwell
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2015, 12:03:54 PM »

Well the easiest way and possibly the cheapest is curtailment of the renewables, probably by detecting frequency on the grid.  I would like to see this modelled but my guess is that there are not many hours where this would happen.  It has to be a summer holiday day with exceptional wind and of course sun.  I would say that if intermittent uncontrolled generators wished to be connected to the grid they have to accept curtailment without compensation.

Although the National Grid have started to highlight this potential problem with over 10Gw and up to 22Gw of solar we are still along way off yet  http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/national_grid_more_than_10gw_of_solar_will_make_grid_operation_signifi23545

Curtailment already takes place but this is because of local capacity problems with the grid.

Whatever method is chosen remember it has to be at the control of the grid not controlled by consumer demand which could not be relied on.  For sure consumer controlled methods will help but the backstop is something completely different and fail safe.

Ken
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ProDave
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2015, 02:07:06 PM »

So does that mean domestic scale (i.e typical 4KWp) solar PV will no longer receive the FIT after next April?

If so that puts me between a rock and a rad place.

I have been unable to fit solar PV to my new build because until it's finished (and it won't be finished by next April) I don't have an EPC, and despite trying, I have been unable to obtain an EPC exemption letter.

So it looks like the option of waiting until the house is finished and then getting solar PV is not going to be possible.

That leaves me two choices:

Install a system now and get the lower "non EPC" rate on the basis it's better than nothing?

Or wait, and just do a DIY system and make sure I install enough "stuff" like immersion dump controllers etc to make sre I never export anything.  BUT for that to be viable with no FIT it would have to cost a LOT less than current prices.

Amy more clarity please?
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4KW Solar PV,  4.5KW woodburner, 5KW Air source heat pump
TheFairway
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 02:17:42 PM »

It reads to me that no decision has been taken wrt FIT but these are currently being reviewed.
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mr_magicfingers
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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2015, 03:49:17 PM »

We had a new quote for a PV install that we planned for next year. We're now looking at taking out a short term loan to get it done as soon as possible. Have to have the EPC redone as the house was at an F but improvements will hopefully put it up to a D with the PV. Should have something sorted in the next week or two.
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Solar PV: 6kw (24 x REC 250w), Sunny Boy 3600TL-21, roof facing 178 at 40 slope.
300l Thermal Store, 2 x 3kw immersions via Immersun + Dunsley Yorkshire WBS
Woodwarm Double sided 6kw WBS
7 acres of old woodland I'm slowly bringing back into order.
pdf27
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« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2015, 04:16:54 PM »

So does that mean domestic scale (i.e typical 4KWp) solar PV will no longer receive the FIT after next April?
Ted's link appears to be saying that the FIT is likely to go for ground-mount PV (solar farms and the like), since that is what they're talking about removing the RO from. I'm less convinced and I think they'll just go for a cut in the FIT rate, which has been gradually happening for some time anyway. The relevant bit in the consultation document is:
Quote
In addition, we propose launching a banding review for solar PV projects of 5MW and below (this would apply to projects in England and Wales only).
There is no mention anywhere of removing the FIT completely, rather it looks like they're planning to trim it back somewhat. Critically, they've also committed to further consultation on the new FIT rates or whatever else they do with it, so you're unlikely to have to make a decision just yet.
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Ted
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« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2015, 09:05:09 PM »

The banding review announced is only in regards to PV under RO, not under FiTs, although I would expect an announcement from DECC on the future of FiTs fairly soon as it makes no sense to amend the RO and not make matching changes to FiTs.
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biff
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« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2015, 10:49:31 PM »

I picked up on the bit where they said that only medium solar farms of 45 acres would be targeted.
                     "Only solar farms of 45 acres I must have got that wrong somehow",?
  Maybe they meant 4 to 5 acres,? Shocked  That is a helluva  solar farm  whistlie
  Quite a confident talker she was,,Rudd her name was.. She would not be used to people saying no to her, hysteria
                                                  Biff
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
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