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Author Topic: Best ever MPG  (Read 11719 times)
biff
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2015, 10:53:19 AM »

Having spent a happy youth,
                              Driving all kinds of jallopies on 4 wheels, I was never one to worry about brakes, until I really needed them which by then was a bit too late and required some extreme navigational skills to stay out of trouble, In the end I developed a habit (which I have to this day)of staying well back from the car in front,even if half the nation passed me out.The NCT was the best thing that ever happened to this country but I recall an old farmer explaining the amount of deaths on our roads and blaming the NCT of all things,, "Yee see" says he, "Before this auld test thing came along,we were all driving around on the seat of our pants, bald tyres, no brakes and steering that was pretty good if it had half a turn before catching on the steering wheel"   "Yee would be clean off yer head even trying to get over 40miles an hour on the old cars but nowaday,,there are 10 year old cars that can fair hoof it up to the ton on these roads that are only fit for a donkey and cart and the drivers have no clue to the speeds they are doing because the cars are too good and comfortable and then they go and crash and we are all going to funerals like never before".
  Some years ago, before the tiger died and farmers wives drove beemers, I used to travel a mountain road on my old 92zx 1.4 petrol(carb). It was a fantastic road to drive and the zx was one of the best balanced cars ever built, it could bend and twist and snake it way around every harpin and humpback on that mountain road. This morning I was in a hurry and came up behind a medium beemer driven by a woman with a child in its seat in the back,(I did not know this until she pulled into a school some 8 miles on).When the straight came up,she took off like a rocket and I just hung back waiting for her to settle down but instead she kept the foot down and went into the bends and out of them leaving me with  quite a bit of work to do on the zx. Not only that, she was taking each bend wide and not leaving herself any room for correction, she was going round those bends like on rails as they say). I was having a word with my son later and he (automotive engineer) said that the beemer was fitted with the latest traction control which could be switched on or off. To me,, This was the answer to so many fatalities on the roads. These people were buying into gadgets that could take the car into situations where if the surface of the road failed, the traction control failed and death or serious injury were a certainty.
   My favourite road became tamed with speed traps, Then, on one downhill decent my son crashed and totaled his  car. He told me he was only doing 40mph but his car cartwheeled for over 200yds before taking off into the bog and landing upside down in a large drain, he said the worst thing about the whole episode was trying to walk back up to the road over all the bog holes and drains carrying his bits and pieces and the people waiting on the roadside for him,,asking him was he OK. I stored his car away for years because it never burst open, the metal supports on the driver,s seat collapsed but did not break, saving his back, no airbag but the steering wheel bent to one side.
 The roof came in but somehow he had enough room, he is over 6ft. The car saved his life. He went to sleep that night without a bother and slept like a log but I stayed up all night and watched him while he slept. Being deaf as I am, would be no excuse if he called during the night was was bleeding internally. I had a friend,who had a similar crash and was found dead in bed the following morning. He had refused point blank to go near the hospital.(no booze) He had not a mark on him. I told my son afterwards that the only other person who could pull a stunt like that and walk away, was his grandfather.
  MPG, ? Errr yes back then 45 mpg was good ,and I was getting that from my old ZX and a nice 50+ from the 1.9diesel version. Have I learned sense,? I think so. Now I like the MPG and do not keep a van any more, My soft roader suzuki is very comfortable and a pleasure to drive. I still love that mountain road Grin
                                                                             Biff
 
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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2015, 11:08:30 AM »

 I think that if you admit to coasting as we call it,
                          You might find that it is supposed to be illegal, So if you are filling in an insurance form be very very careful as to what you put down.
                                             Biff
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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2015, 11:24:03 AM »

Not coasting out of gear Biff, that wouldn't engage the fuel cut off as the revs would drop below 1600, maybe using engine braking would be a better phrase.

I also think that coasting (out of gear) the car is not being driven so is technically not fully under control, that might be pure rubbish but it was something i was told when i was doing my Army driver training, separately on my HGV 3,2 and 1 courses, it was always drummed into me and now its just part of how i think.
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« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2015, 11:58:29 AM »

I'm often surprised by how much unnecessary clobber people cart about - mass = fuel.
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« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2015, 01:36:21 PM »

Even as a teenager when fuel was cheap I was a sad case and tried to eek out that extra MPG. Always filling the tank to the brim and religiously calculating my consumption. Back in the 70's when I drove a Hillman Dimp I could 'squeeze' 51MPG out of it. I've had no end of flash cars in my yoof but always drove them like an old duffer.



This beauty would do 100MPH all day long but I never went over 70MPH and could still achieve 54MPG on a run and never less than 40. The biggest surprise I ever bought was a 1986 Audi Coupe 1.8 carb, for a while I thought my mate (who occasionally borrowed it) was putting fuel in it as it continually returned 45.4MPG. This car was 16 years old and I could guarantee that for every 10 miles I drove it would need 1lt of unleaded  genuflect The most economical by far was a Peugeot 305 van with 250,000 on the clock, I never ever got 70MPG out of it but came pretty close at 68. Never coasted, never slipstreamed just set off slow and leave plenty of room behind the car in front. I always found that my mates who 'drove like they stole' their cars never got to their destinations much quicker than me anyway.
 
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« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2015, 02:04:24 PM »

In the 60s  people tuned 848cc Minis to do 100mpg and the AA would also report such good figs.  The original mini was detuned from 34HP to 31HP because it was thought to be too powerfull.   This was helped by the then Mini weighing 9.3/4 cwt and the detuning being done by reducing valve overlap and a long stroke engine. Have we progressed ?
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« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2015, 04:12:55 PM »

The Bini, as official successor to the BMC Mini definitely has not succeeded. It's lardy, big on the outside, made from cheap components and pretty much a trinket. Yet fairly ugly, to my eyes, as well as outrageously expensive fwii. I guess it's sufficiently cute, drives ok and hasn't been slated by the motoring press because it goes neatly round a track.

From the tail end of the 80s through to the mid/late 90s, some cars had that magic threesome of qualities - mechanical reliability to high mileages, galvanised bodies and relative simplicity. Think larger PSA and Audi diesels - simple, tough, well-made and rot-resistant. The industry soon made sure what followed would fail more easily and frequently, ably aided and abetted by emission legislation which is so draconian it has created worse real-world results, not least with the creation of nano-particulates which pass through the lung lining rather than being coughed out.

 If I were looking to buy new (which I wouldn't even with all the money in the world!), it would have to be one of the better EVs - not because they're kinder to the planet (I don't think they are, yet) but because they're simpler, no doubt better-built and so longer-lasting than many conventionally-powered cars. And the rest of the population is subsidising the purchase and the fuel bills for being an early-adopter.


PS liking the Fulvia, camillitech - bet it was rusty though!
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« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2015, 06:52:37 PM »

My first good car was an Austin A30,
                                 The one with the small rear screen,998cc,same engine as the mini I believe. It did 45+ to the gallon and ultra reliable. Growing up, My friends had DKWs 3.6 2 strokes.. Incredible power   and they came in two tone colours. They were 3 cylinder with a coil for each cylinder, There was a really throaty growl out of them starting off. They were always crashing them or wrecking the drive trains. They could break drive shafts 2"thick,(front wheel drive,early audi). Back then Skoda was a very good car and shaped like the Volvo Amazon.
  Back then, NSU, Renault, Simca, Citroen were objects of ridicule, Most of them rear engined and prone to go on fire. Doctors and vets drove big Merc diesel estates which could be heard coming a mile away. Hillman minx was a respectable car as was the Californian. My old man,s last V8 Customline sat for sale for a good few months before anyone offered to buy it. The runs to the Cobh of Cork to the American Boat were now done in a VW split screen microbus. Then he switched back to Ford minibus,s because repairs were a lot cheaper and they were a lot faster.His last new cars were Hyundai. He bought the first one for his 80th birthday, a 1600gti affair which amazed him and petrified me. He liked his cars and kept them spotless and well tuned, just like my son,The only difference is that my son plugs the laptop into his Merc and my old man would reach for a spanner but never with the Hyundai .
 I cannot believe,how little miles I cover these times. That tells me something and sometimes I feel a bit sad . Nowaday, I would rather futter in the shed and save my motoring for the shopping trips or the odd good weather trip over the mountain. Maybe I am learning sense after all.
                                                 Biff
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« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2015, 07:55:21 PM »




PS liking the Fulvia, camillitech - bet it was rusty though!

Aye Spaces it 'was' rusty until I fitted new aluminium bonnet, boot and doors off a series 1, cut two new wings off a scrap 1.6HF and welded on new inner and outer sills. The car was only 5 or 6 years old!!!! In those days Italian cars were taxed on cubic capacity so they produced some incredible engines, the 1.3 Fulvia produced  98BHP same as a 2.0OHC Ford, the 1.6HF an incredible 130BHP the same as a 3.0 Ford. By contrast British cars were taxed on HP and it wasn't even real HP it was the 'RAC rating' a formula that took into account the bore size, this saddled British cars with small bores, long strokes and tiny valves for years.

RAC horsepower (taxable horsepower)
See also: Tax horsepower

This measure was instituted by the Royal Automobile Club in Britain and was used to denote the power of early 20th-century British cars. Many cars took their names from this figure (hence the Austin Seven and Riley Nine), while others had names such as "40/50 hp", which indicated the RAC figure followed by the true measured power.

Taxable horsepower does not reflect developed horsepower; rather, it is a calculated figure based on the engine's bore size, number of cylinders, and a (now archaic) presumption of engine efficiency. As new engines were designed with ever-increasing efficiency, it was no longer a useful measure, but was kept in use by UK regulations which used the rating for tax purposes.

    RAC h.p. = (D^2 * n)/2.5 \,

    where

    D is the diameter (or bore) of the cylinder in inches
    n is the number of cylinders [21]

This is equal to the engine displacement in cubic inches divided by 10π then divided again by the stroke in inches.

Since taxable horsepower was computed based on bore and number of cylinders, not based on actual displacement, it gave rise to engines with 'undersquare' dimensions (bore smaller than stroke) this tended to impose an artificially low limit on rotational speed (rpm), hampering the potential power output and efficiency of the engine.

The situation persisted for several generations of four- and six-cylinder British engines: for example, Jaguar's 3.4-litre XK engine of the 1950s had six cylinders with a bore of 83 mm (3.27 in) and a stroke of 106 mm (4.17 in),[22] where most American automakers had long since moved to oversquare (large bore, short stroke) V-8s (see, for example, the early Chrysler Hemi).


 The bodies of Italian cars however were a different story, as you know they were carp, never even painted some parts you couldn't see. Totally agree about the old Audi's, sold the wife's  80 diesel estate when it was 13 years old and it still had the original exhaust on it. The next owner scrapped it at 16 years old but it still had that exhaust on it and the bodywork was immaculate.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 07:56:58 PM by camillitech » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2015, 10:17:42 PM »

Yep - our government was scuppering our industry way back then. Although the last I heard about longstroke engines is that they're back in fashion since emissions are generally lower with less heat lost to the coolant and a smaller piston surface to volume as tdc is approached. It's certainly a fine format for burning vegoil, which takes slightly longer to fully combust than diesel.
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« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2015, 08:20:19 AM »

I never quite got to grips with the science behind long stroke and economy. Just as I left the motor trade some thirty years ago and lost touch with all developments Ford introduced the Sierra 1.6 E Max. This had a lengthened stroke and smaller bore to the previous 1.6 'Pinto' engine. I'd always thought it was so all three engines (1.6, 1.8 and 2.0) could share the same crankshaft and thus reduce production costs. They called it a 'lean burn' engine, me I thought it was bull, having worked for Ford since 1976. Perhaps they were onto something after all  Wink Yup, around 1985 is when my knowledge of the infernal combustion engine reached it's nadir, it's been downhill ever since  Grin
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« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2015, 08:44:31 AM »

The UK's most economical cars 2015

    1. Peugeot 208 1.6 Blue HDi - 94.1mpg
    2. Peugeot 308 Blue HDi - 91.1mpg
    3. Vauxhall Corsa 1.3 CDTi - 88.3mpg
    4. Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion - 88.3mpg
    5. Kia Rio 1.1 CRDi - 88.3mpg
    6. Renault Clio 1.5 dCi - 88.3mpg
    7. Skoda Octavia Greenline - 88.3mpg
    8. Ford Fiesta Econetic - 85.6mpg
    9. Vauxhall Corsa 1.3 CDTi - 85.6mpg
    10. SEAT Leon Ecomotive - 85.6mpg
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« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2015, 10:58:10 AM »

Which? May 2015 blows those figures out of the water and blames it on the obsolete tests? On AVERAGE, cars fall short by 13% in the real world.
Any accredited lab, rarely repeatable results between labs.
75mph for only 10 secs and this is where many cars use most fuel.
Tested in unresponsive eco mode which drivers tend to not use.
All ancillary loads off.
1.2mph tolerance below required speeds.
Roof rails, extra lights, passenger door mirror can be removed.
Any tyre pressure.
No policing of tests.
Rules allow 4% off results arbitrarily at end.
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« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2015, 11:51:00 AM »

I've been doing a lot more concentrating on the driving conditions and traffic levels, and then giving myself lots of room so if traffic slows ahead, I can use the space to slow down on engine braking rather than using brakes - engine braking engages fuel cut-off mode so you waste less in deceleration.

I've been sticking quite firmly to not exceeding 55mph on the motorway.

I've been short-shifting when accelerating - accelerate at around 90% throttle, but only rev to about 2000RPM before changing gear - this keeps RPM lower and keeps the engine closer to its peak torque, which should be more efficient.

Where appropriate, I've either been coasting downhill (engage clutch) to pick up a bit of speed for an uphill section following, OR, I've been coming off throttle completely and using engine braking to maintain speed and engage fuel cut-off mode.

I've also been doing manual stop-start when in traffic. A bit annoying as in my car that means the stereo gets switched off when you do it, but it's better than idling the engine going nowhere!

I've tried doing pulse & glide, but it's a hateful way to drive, so I stopped doing that.

I don't do really excessive things like drafting HGVs - that can improve MPG by 30%, but it's extremely dangerous! I also don't do ignition-off coasting like some hypermilers do - you lose your hydraulics for brakes/steering.

I also upped the pressure in my tyes a bit.

Dan, what are your driving techniques to achieve this. I do my best also but wonder if I can improve further.

I do most, if not all of these.
I installed stop and start micro-switches on my gear knob so i can cut and start the engine with a finger tip  Grin
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« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2015, 01:23:27 PM »

Plenty will blow 10k+ because of the suggestion of saving 25 a month on fuel (sheer madness, surely?) - unless you're 'upgrading' from something pretty inefficient there's a good chance you'll be disappointed, the figures are about as realistic as having three months of constant sunshine in Britain. The tests themselves are fairly unrealsitic and the makers tune the electronics to give the best numbers in the test cycles rather than the real world. If you really want to find the most economical cars to run, look at taxi ranks (unless you want something tiny).

If you're intentions are to have something which has a minimal impact on our planet, goes well, looks smart and is comfy and practical, buy an Audi 80 for 1500 - at that price you should land a car which puts cars a quarter of the age to shame. Simple, tough, economical and very long-lasting on a minimal input. I struggle to see the case for anything 'better' unless you cover vast mileage or peer pressure really matters - or there's a need to 'feel you're worth it', as Martin may have said.
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