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Author Topic: Off grid fit application, do the dno need to be informed?  (Read 2556 times)
glyndwr1998
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« on: October 16, 2015, 06:58:00 PM »

Hi,
Not sure if this the right category for the post, or the fit section, but here goes anyway.

I have an additional 3 kW of solar pv that I want to install on an off grid type system, and possibly claim the fit too.

There are new types of inverters out now that are quite intelligent, and can divert generated power into batteries, ( I have 10kwh of lifepo4 batteries ready to go, plus 8kwh of leaf cells) or an immersion type resistive load, and dump loads. I was thinking of getting one and integrate it into my existing solar pv system, and use the battery power at night time and supplement the day loads when pv isn't generating the load at the time.

Ok, so if I get the system certified do the dno, in my case western power, need to be notified of the system is off grid?

I will install a changeover switch at the meter point to isolate the grid when the inverter is running in the evenings etc..

Any help or advice ever much appreciated.
Anthony.
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dan_b
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2015, 09:13:41 AM »

If it's off grid, how are you going to claim a feed in payment if you're not, you know, feeding in to the grid?
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Tiff
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2015, 09:51:08 AM »

If it's off grid, how are you going to claim a feed in payment if you're not, you know, feeding in to the grid?

You can still claim the generation tariff for an off grid setup. Can't claim the export tariff though.

Tricky bit can be metering, must be with an Ofgem/MID approved meter, most if not all of them being AC meters.
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jonesy
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2015, 10:10:20 AM »

I'm confused.  If it's off grid, how can you integrate a new inverter with the existing grid tied pv?
Or is that the crux?  You want to tie 3kW of new into the existing but with no export, hence wanting to know if DNO need notification.
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Ted
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2015, 10:58:33 AM »

... and integrate it into my existing solar pv system

Depends entirely what you mean by this.

If it is entirely off-grid then the DNO do not need to be informed/give approval, but it there is any element of connection then they would.
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glyndwr1998
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 11:20:43 AM »

If it's off grid, how are you going to claim a feed in payment if you're not, you know, feeding in to the grid?

Feed into 10kwh lithium batteries. I realise there are no metering devices for DC, so us a non grid tie inverter through a Mcs approved AC meter, then AC/DC charger to charge the batteries.
Not ideal with energy being wasted from AC to DC then DC back to AC.

I'd love to have one of these newer type hybrid inverters but they are so expensive. I have the batteries here already and a spare inverter, so already have most of the kit here to set up such a system. Maybe then an automatic generator transfer switch and isolate the mains incoming and use the batteries as a generator with a ups

Anthony.
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rogeriko
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 04:28:48 PM »

Easy solution would be to connect all your batteries in series so they match the output of your panels, say 400 volts charge them up during the daytime and then in the evening when the sun goes down and your grid tie is no longer producing connect the batteries to the dc side of the grid tie inverter and sell all the power stored during the day to the grid at night.  You could theoretically produce 3.8kw all day and all night.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:39:09 PM by rogeriko » Logged

nowty
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 08:30:54 PM »

If there is any element of grid connection, i.e. if even under a fault condition the so called "off grid system" could export to the grid then its grid tied and the DNO needs to be involved. Therefore any sort of integration is difficult.

My second system (sunny island based with forklift batteries) is purely off grid, the DNO has not been notified and I still get FITs for it.

As you have all that lithium and PV, I would say a little more for a decent off grid inverter is small beer but you need to find a MCS person to install / sign it off for an MCS certificate which you need for the FITs. And of course get it done before the year end before the FIT rate evaporates !

« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 08:50:07 PM by nowty » Logged

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Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
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Hoodfarm
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2015, 10:33:06 AM »

hello Anthony,interesting scheme and I had planned a similar myself, time is short though. Im interested to know if you have decided to go ahead & if you have found a suitable installer.
                    atb alan
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oliver90owner
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2015, 11:23:19 AM »

an off grid type system, 

I smiled to myself, when I read that.  If it is off grid it is off grid.  Nothing ambiguous about that.  Using on grid power to charge batteries while on grid is not 'off grid' (whether that power is taken from the grid or from an on grid home generation system is immaterial)  If you then use that stored power while 'off grid', you are not on the grid.  Can't be off grid and on grid on the same circuits, both at the same time.  Seems fairly clear and simple to me.

FITs is a separate issue, entirely.  Need some clear thinking here?
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JohnS
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2015, 07:33:44 PM »

Well said o90o.  I was wondering the same myself.

DNO gets an application for an off grid FIT; checks register and finds an on grid FIT system already installed; scratches head; rejects application.
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skyewright
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2015, 09:43:59 PM »

DNO gets an application for an off grid FIT; checks register and finds an on grid FIT system already installed; scratches head; rejects application.
No so in nowty's case. They did query it, but he was able to provide adequate answers & now has both on-grid & off-grid FITs at the same premises.
Here's nowty's reply when I asked if he'd had "additional "fun" getting an off-grid system FIT'd for a house that's on the grid?"

http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17834.msg277254.html#msg277254
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 09:47:45 PM by skyewright » Logged

Regards
David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40°, WSW, Lat 57° 9' (Isle of Skye)
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2015, 11:02:54 PM »

Yep, FITs for “on grid” and more FITs for “off grid”. fingers crossed!

And my FIT provider was fully understanding of the issues.
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11kW+ of PV installed and 56+ MWh generated.
Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
260,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Home grown Fruit and Veg.
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