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Author Topic: The Turkish Turnip flies  (Read 10834 times)
agrarian
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 11:46:07 AM »

Cheers, more panels it is  Wink

Whilst Biff's probably right about the turbine in question (he's the expert here), don't be put off, there's a lot of pleasure to be had playing with the wind.

Ag
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2 x Yangzhou Shenzhou 2KW , 1.2KW pv, 540Ah@120v deep cycle, 2 x 2KW sine wave, off grid on a Snowdonia mountain. Never forget that the power varies as the CUBE of the windspeed.
fourfootfarm
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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2015, 06:58:13 PM »

Well in the recent wind we've been having its certainly kicking out enough power to warm up the dump load a fair bit. But as i've not rigged up a  datalogging system yet I don't know how much exactly. Enough to make me think about raiding on old computer heatsink and computer fan to dissipate some of the heat faster from the dump load.

Dump load is currently bolted to a bit of sheet steel with an airgap between it and the wall to allow convection to do its magical work.

Contemplating setting up an arduino as a combined data logger and also temp sensing fan controller. However off the shelf fan controllers are very cheap thanks to our PC enthusiast friends.

I was having a think about mechanical braking. A thought occurred that a mountain bike style disk brake rotor could be added to the shaft with not too much difficulty. If they're strong enough to stop 100kg (220lb) of cyclist and bike whizzing down hill then they should do for a turbine. Main issue would be where to put the brake pads, though a bit of barstock attached to the heatsink should do it. Of for added strength to the turbine mounting itself.
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
fourfootfarm
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2015, 08:22:16 PM »

Bad news. Seems like some of the FET's have gone in the controller and its going straight to dump as soon as its connected to the batteries. Completely destroyed my testing things set of batteries. Going to see if I can nurse them back to into life with some of the devils juice. Mains power.

In other news I now have two Xantrex C60's in various states of broken I can scavenge for parts for other projects. The first one lasted dutifully for years on a missmatched solar lash up before giving up the ghost and the good people in the States send me a free replacement with one day left on the warranty. The other either fell pray to my ineptitude or something has gone very awry.

Time to grit my teeth and get a tristar I think.

In other news I made a fairly substantial brake switch from a three phase 4t2p 50a isolator switch which works marvellously.

Onwards and upwards.
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
fourfootfarm
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2015, 02:53:54 PM »

Question, if I connect up solar and wind to the same battery using the solar charge controller is it best to set the bulk of the solar charger to .5v below the cut in point of the dump load to stop the solar interfering with the turbine.

The C60 will be on its way back to me soon repaired courtesy of Mr Phil Barton. It wouldn't surprise me if he is on here somewhere.

Thanks
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
biff
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2015, 08:14:01 PM »

FFF,
       I commend your bravery, The Pistedabreeze turbines are remarkable pieces of engineering and you my friend are having fun getting the best out of it,
  However, if you connect up the solar and the turbine to the bank, You will find that the turbine does all the grunting and the pv does all the work,
  lowering your pv output is going to drastically cut back your over all production. I would let the turbine dumpload set the PV peak, You can divert the excess pv power away to heat a little water.
  If you can get a little decent wind and a good bit of sun at the same time, You will be able to take the time to stand and watch the sunbursts brake the turbine.
 Our own house system is just like this. Every time I see our turbne braking in the sunlight, I know that our dc immersions are doing the business inside out tanks.
 Like you, we got started with a little 450watt x 12v Yang-Shen W turbine and two 80 watt x 12 v solar panels.
 Don,t worry. You are getting there.
                                      Biff
 
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fourfootfarm
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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2015, 09:32:28 PM »

Hi Biff,

I knew they were shoddy from the start, rather than getting it free like I thought I've found out dear father actually paid good money for it. You can give all the advice in the world but some people just won't listen. Well even if it only throws out a few amps during the night at least it will slowly earn its keep.

They are much more fun the solar though, all they do is just sit there selflessly and boringly creating electricity.

I've been meaning to ask, where did you find your interesting and robust inverter?

I'm a little worried about wiring my panels directly to the battery are recommended as they will back feed at night, and if I put at diode in I lose previous amps.

The trials and tribulations we cause ourselves hey?



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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
biff
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« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2015, 10:28:01 AM »

      "The trials and tribulations we cause ourselves" 
       Very true FFF Grin,
                        I went through a variety of little 300watt inverters years ago. I kept about 3 or four of them in a box and tried them all at different times.I even got one from Aldi.
      None of them were any good. i even got an expensive one from Maplins in a sale for 75.00 Cry . it was pure sine wave and ate the juice.
  Eventually I got a little APC, 650va ups and connected it to our 1200ah yousa bank. It is still there to this day. These are an old APC, pre timer, metal casing, little toggle switch with the green light for on and off. and very very reliable. no fan. 400watt. good on juice.
  The panels them selves all have blocking diodes. just make sure that you have your controller set to divert to dump on a proper rated dump load which is half as much again as your max.
  Wind turbines are brilliant inventions. It is great to see them working and doing the business. You are getting great experience and I got a feeling that once you get the hang of it, you are going to move up to a bigger one. I think that both AG and myself believe that the 2kw is about as much as one person can manage on their own but you can do a heck of a lot with a 2kw one or even a 1kw one.
                Enjoy!
                          Biff
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fourfootfarm
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2015, 10:36:28 AM »

Hi Biff,

I've been interested in building a HP style turbine since I found out about them, its a fairly hefty up front cost though and thanks to my general ineptitude I will no doubt mess it up somehow. But the turnip is a good learning exercise in turbine control anyway.

Our maplin inverter has finally about given up the ghost. It was on offer and I bought about 7 years it really without realising what it would be for (I think I was going to put it in my car) Long before any plans for offgrid life anyway. Its still chugging gently along but I think the caps have swollen so its producing about a 1/10th of what it should.

I've got at APC one too, one of the beige metal cased things, but I can never get the thing to cold start which makes it a complete pain to use. It does come in handy though as its PSW the little twin tub washing machines run much better from it.

One of the Stirling PSW ones came up on eblag for very cheap. I've read fairly mixed things about them, I get the impression Mr Sterling himself can be a little brusque. The plan is to have that run 24/7 to run LED lighting and slowly phase out the 12v lights, parents eyesight isn't getting any better so they need more lumens!

Along with the turnip came a powerjack inverter, which I'm not sure I even want to touch. It rated far too high for little set of 24v batteries I've got wired up at the moment, so I don't want to wire it in in case someone tries to run an electric kettle off it and kill the batteries. Oh reasonably priced forklift, where art thou?

This is where I get a little confused. I've read that oversizing the dumpload is the way to go. (Which i'd thought I'd done but obviously not sufficiently as evidenced by blown fet on the controller) But this means in order for the diversion controller to power the dumpload then you're not able to use it to full capacity.

So for a 60 amp charger. You can have 40 amps of generation and 60 amps of load including the necessary overhead. Is that correct or am I getting it arse about tit?

In a HP design 2kw is a 3.7 meter turbine isn't it? I think thats probably a little too big for us to manage at the moment. Thank goodness for tractors and winches though.
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
biff
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2015, 10:57:53 AM »

Hi FFF,
      It might be an idea to post a few pics of your set up to give us an idea.
  I remember some years back a friend of mine had a 600watt Y/S. He lived by the sea in a very strong wind area. (really windy)
 He did everything right by the book, excellent dumploads, controller, inverter but he kept frying controllers. Each time we studied the specs and the way we had over engineered the whole installation we were bamboozled. Then I suggested a smaller set of blades on a 5ft prop. He invested in a one big lump rectifier and extra dump loads and that seemed to do the trick. However last week he was telling me that the heat during the latest storms was burning the plastic around the led charging light. He had reduced the size of the prop in the end, just like I did myself.
  I got a bad result one time by setting the dump load voltage too high,
                                                                         Biff
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rogeriko
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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2015, 12:12:37 PM »

Most APC ups can be cold started by holding in the power button until it beeps or flashes about 5 seconds
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fourfootfarm
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2015, 06:54:37 PM »

Hopefully santa is bringing a new shed for christmas so I will end up moving everything into there. Best get the kingspan out.

Will post some pictures when everything is nice and tidy for once and the cats aren't trying to sit on the dumpload for warmth!

I've tried various tricks to getting it to cold start, the only thing that works is firing up a smaller inverter to warm start it. The other method I've heard of is holding down the button till you hear a beep and then letting go, but that can take up to 60 seconds. No joy though. I can't remember the model number though SU1000 something. It's one of the 2U ones designed to be rack mounted.
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
offthegridandy
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2015, 07:14:54 PM »

FFF,  as a new convert to successful harnessing of the wind using the HP design, I can strongly recommend it.  The 2014 edition of his recipe book rates the 4.2 mtr at 1000w as is the 3.6mtr. The difference is in getting higher output at lower speeds with the larger diameter.

The designs are made to be rugged and reliable rather than maximum output. All of the process's in the build could be done by hand but power tools speed the job.  Welding is a required skill or could be subbed out, but all the other metal work and wood work are straight forwards enough.

HP reckons to allow about 1000 to build a 4.2mtr jobby.  A good tower is required for 4.2mtr and can cost regardless of the turbine on top.

Cheers.

Andy.
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8 KVA Lister TS2 Startamatic Genny
24 Volt 1000amp battery bank
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Outback Flexmax 80
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2.5 Kw WT H Piggot design 4.5 Mtr Dia AC coupled
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u/floor heating from oil boiler cross linked to 12 K wood stove
fourfootfarm
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2015, 07:41:05 PM »

Hi Andy,

I have the wee Hugh Pigott book somewhere, not the step by step process but the glossary basically. Very interesting reading all the same.

The old man is an excellent woodworker and I know my way around a welder so the nuts and bolts are achievable. What I am most worried about is the stators and windings. One misstep and you've broken some very expensive magnets.

I like the idea of being able to buy in bits and peices.

On the other hand 1000 is almost 2000w of solar panels though. Though this november has been grim for output.
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
fourfootfarm
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2015, 10:06:52 AM »

Found a small HP turbine up for sale for reasonable money, well, more money than I have but still reasonable.

I think buying one and reverse engineering it and creating a new one would be well within my wherewithal.

Food for thought.
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
fourfootfarm
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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2015, 01:54:34 PM »

Everything is now back up and running. Wind turbine happily pumping out the amps in these very strong winds.

Its averaging around 60w but peaked at a massive 220w while I was checking it.

Not bad for a turnip. Even one thats supposed to kick out 500w  whistlie
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Outback FM60. EPsolar 30a MPPT and a bunch of Tristar 45's. Hodge Podge of solar ~ 4500w. Various generators and 1000ah 24v forklift battery.

Turkish Turnip
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