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Author Topic: UPS and Growatt SP2000 unit  (Read 17792 times)
book_woorm
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« on: November 05, 2015, 10:51:51 AM »

Anybody tried connecting a the 48v LIFEPO4 battery of a Growatt SP2000 to a UPS yet? Ok you would need to take out the old SLA's and disable the charging circuit in the UPS and the UPS would need to be a 48v one. This strikes me as a relitavely cheap way of getting both self consumption and a backup supply for things like solar thermal controllers and borehole pumps.
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2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
roys
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2015, 11:14:38 AM »

Oh interesting, I have a 48V UPS waiting for a use.
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book_woorm
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2015, 11:29:46 AM »

What make and model number is the UPS have you got? I haven't sourced one yet I need something like 4 amp to drive the single phase/capacitor run pump plus 200 watts or so for solar thermal/heating controls/fridges etc.
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2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
roys
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2015, 11:51:04 AM »

It is a Compaq R3000h so it has about a 2800 VA output.
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glyndwr1998
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2015, 09:31:59 AM »

Hi all,

I am currently running some tests on my own build.

I have got 2 ups systems,
1. A 6 kva socomec sicom 48v battery set up
2. A 10kva apc smart 10000xli a 200v DC battery set up.
my first tests will concentrate on the smaller ups, a socomec sicom 6kva. This has a 48v sealed lead acid battery.

I also have 2 sets of lithium batteries,

Set 1 is a Nissan Leaf set of 14 modules, these are lithium cobalt manganese chemistry, are in 2 sets of 7 modules to make either a 7.5 kWh 48v system for the socomec sicom ups, or as 96v battery as a half battery for the 10kva ups. I'd need another 14 Nissan Leaf modules to complete the battery, I'd imaging I'd get these quite soon.

Set 2 is a lifepo4 battery 48v 165ah system giving 8 kWh energy storage, I've been using this battery in a Toyota Prius plug in hybrid conversion for 18 months with no issues, only removed to fit a leaf battery with 16kwh for more range.

I have already run the ups from the leaf battery, and it is still set up and working, and it works very well.
Charging is done by a 48v 1kw meanwell power supply, these are reliable units and reasonably cheap for what they are. They can be adjusted from 44v to 58v so can be adjusted to match the battery full capacity setting with alittle time. For instance, the leaf modules can be charged to 4.2v max, I take them to 4.1v max and the charger is set to 57v and works well. The charger is switched off using a cell log device that has an alarm switch that can be set to whatever cell voltage you choose within the parameters of the cell chemistry. I have had this type of set up working on the Prius plug in conversion with no issues, and still use the same set up with the leaf batteries in the Prius too, which I am still using today.

So, it can be done, as I am currently setting up a similar system using my own equipment, it has gone through 5 full cycles only with no problems. The ups reports no power left as it still thinks the original battery is fitted, but in practice it keeps running until it's switched off and the battery is recharged. When the ups is then switcjphed back on with a full battery it reads full.

These home energy solutions are really great and the lithium chemistry is very very good, with current prices though I feel they are too expensive.

Anthony.
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7.5kw solar pv
Prius plug in hybrid conversion by myself (now reverted back to standard prius)
Nissan e-NV200 wheelchair converted vehicle
book_woorm
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2015, 10:18:35 AM »

How did you turn off the battery charging system in the ups? I've not been able to find service manuals for these things, the manufacturers seem to keep this information under wraps.

I'm looking for an automatic change over from grid to standby to keep a number of critical systems alive and the standard switch over in a UPS will do what I want but I need to disable the battery charging. I'm intending putting those critical systems on their own distribution unit down stream of the UPS. I'm also thinking of taking the Growatt SP2000 230v supply from the critical systems distribution unit and putting the output of the solar inverter back into the same panel. On mains failure I can then let the inverter sync to the UPS and keep taking power from the sun and lighten the load on the battery.
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2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
biff
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 03:20:04 PM »




,
       Would these not be a bit heavy for the Prius, ?
                                           Biff
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roys
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 04:49:03 PM »

Biff take it these are your old lead acids, pity the scrap price is at a low just now.
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glyndwr1998
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 06:00:39 PM »

Nice one biff, I thinks the suspension legs instead of being vertical would be horizontal with those in the boot.....

Hi book worm,

The tests I've been doing are with the socomec sicom ups.
This ups has a separate battery box and its own charger built into the box, so, what I did was purely remove the original batteries from the box (4 rows of 12v lead acid) and connected up my leaf battery. The ups is never powered on at the same time as the my own separate meanwell power supply charger so the charge circuit of the ups is never operational.
In fact as I can cold start the ups without AC power connected to it, there is no need for AC power at all with it. This way there's no need to consider the ups battery charge circuit as it won't have an AC supply for it to operate, at least in my set up. Not sure if that makes sense to you.
I can contro the meanwell power supply with voltage cut off relays or cell alarm relays. Won't power on again until I press a start switch.
Ask away if you'd like more info.

Thanks.
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7.5kw solar pv
Prius plug in hybrid conversion by myself (now reverted back to standard prius)
Nissan e-NV200 wheelchair converted vehicle
glyndwr1998
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 06:11:50 PM »

Just noticed too those grow at units are over 3000 plus vat for 4kwh of lifepo4 storage, wow. I didn't pay that for a 24kwh Nissan Leaf pack.
I was considering selling my 8kwh lifepo4 pack as it's different chemistry to the leaf pack and integrating them together won't be easy.

I have had another leaf pack that I sold on with alittle profit to help me with my project, may be getting another one soon.
Anthony.
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7.5kw solar pv
Prius plug in hybrid conversion by myself (now reverted back to standard prius)
Nissan e-NV200 wheelchair converted vehicle
biff
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 06:35:25 PM »


.
   Yes roys,
        Scrap lead is a bit low in price is right but that can change overnight, and then I will send these on. fingers crossed!
                                           Biff
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book_woorm
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2015, 04:37:29 PM »

Has anybody come across this piece of kit?  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221919476559?euid=d2d8047dafbb4236967361f06324c49d&cp=1.

I'm told its made by Victron! and you can turn the charging circuit off.

It looks as though I might be easier to use than hacking an APC UPS to work with LiFEPO4 batteries. I would prefer not going down 'glyndwr1998's' route of manually switching over. By the way where do you get Nissan Leaf batteries from? The people I've asked down here in the South West all say the batteries have to back to Nissan when a car is written off.

I'm also looking at alternative sources of Growatt SP2000 unit. You can get them without the battery for 1000 is the best I've found so far Then you can have a battery as big as you can afford.



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2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
glyndwr1998
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2015, 07:20:45 PM »

Hi bookworm,

Funny enough I have been looking at those low frequency inverters too, but the 5kva model. They are polish. I have tried find out out info on them from other forums but very little that I can understand.

I have obtained the Nissan Leaf packs from a salvaypge yard, from an accident damaged leafs. I have got a few contacts now set up so they have the opportunity to contact me when one comes in.
The batteries in the leaf are owned not rented, so they are part of the car and can be sold to anyone who has an interest in buying one.
The Renault Zoe, fluency and twizy are battery rentals, in those cases the company responsible for the rental agreement arrange the recovery of the battery and it is sent back to Renault.
The battery in the Peugeot ion, Citroen czero and Mitsubishi are all also owned, so the salvage yards are free to sell them on too.

Honestly, the hack to the ups isn't great or technical, all old school stuff like temperature controllers with relay outputs to control temp, voltage meter with relay output to control pack overall voltage and cell log devices to have individual cell monitoring with relay output to alarm if cells go out of tolerance.
The charger is also set up to deliver slightly less than pack absolute high voltage so in the event of all other controls failing, the charger will never deliver more than what the battery can take, once the battery voltage reaches the charger output voltage no current flows.

Of course a bms could be purchased and installed at vast expenxpsive for peace of mind, but I have chosen to stay with old school stuff and relays rather than a heap of electronics and balance circuits.

I haven't finished my battery back up yet, waiting for the voltage meters. I've got the temp controller, cell loggers, DC circuit breakers etc... As soon as the voltage reg turns up I'll finish the set up, run some tests, then post pics and blog of how it works for anyone who's interested.

If you would like any info, ask away, I'll help if I can.

Anthony.
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7.5kw solar pv
Prius plug in hybrid conversion by myself (now reverted back to standard prius)
Nissan e-NV200 wheelchair converted vehicle
book_woorm
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 10:28:34 AM »

Hi, I've managed to get this from the people who are selling the polish inverters https://www.dropbox.com/s/j983gegjmpti9o0/Manual%20E%20and%20W%20eng.pdf?dl=0

The other thought I had if I cant find out how to turn off the charging circuit in the ups was to put a diode between the LiFePO4 battery and the ups. It would be large and throw away a lot of heat but it would protect the battery from the SLA charger. 
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2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
roys
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 02:56:29 PM »


I haven't finished my battery back up yet, waiting for the voltage meters. I've got the temp controller, cell loggers, DC circuit breakers etc... As soon as the voltage reg turns up I'll finish the set up, run some tests, then post pics and blog of how it works for anyone who's interested.

If you would like any info, ask away, I'll help if I can.

Anthony.

I would certainly be interested in reading about the in and outs of this project, good luck with it.
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