135 gramms

[billi]

per kWh  right now

not bad  dix 10 points to Denmark   

http://energinet.dk/flash/Forside/uk/index.html

[HalcyonRichard]

Hi Billi,
          Looks like things are coming into place at last. That would give an EV 34g/km. Or comparing eggs with doughnuts allowing for emodied energy it would be 64g/km. Not bad for current EVs.

Richard

[Countrypaul]

Seems very good, but how do they apportion the CO2 from the CHP systems?

[billi]

positive thinking  .... .... its 118 g/kWh   now

[billi]

Hi Billi,
          Looks like things are coming into place at last. That would give an EV 34g/km. Or comparing eggs with doughnuts allowing for emodied energy it would be 64g/km. Not bad for current EVs.

Richard

Ok   you   calculate in cars ....   ,  fair enough  


my currency is Euros      , i still believe  , that the luxury of electric cars ...........................  has to be invested into the Grid first

[HalcyonRichard]

Hi Billi,
          I have been looking at electric cars a lot especially how much energy they use. Something that struck me was a quote from Elon Musk :-

“You have enough electricity to power all the cars in the country if you stop refining gasoline. You take an average of 5 kilowatt hours to refine one gallon of gasoline, something like the Model S can go 20 miles on 5 kilowatt hours.”

So I am thinking will EV's be a big win win situation ?

Attached is someone else take on the situation.

Richard

[billi]

Richard , a VW   eco up with under 80 gramms per kWh   is about   12000 euro

if Elon Musk  ever wants to manage   to built cars   in a price range like that , then he is very welcome to join

 for the time beeing , i advice  people to invest in PV   and drive  other cars


i did a few  calculations  (based on my silly brain )  ... the result was  that we are bettor of   driving small petrol cars   and  safe some cash for  other ideas

[HalcyonRichard]

Hi Billi,
          I must admit it is very confusing trying to find any information. That refinery info came from Robert Llewellyn, aka Kryten :-

http://longtailpipe.com/ebooks/green-transportation-guide-buying-owning-charging-plug-in-vehicles-of-all-kinds/gasoline-electricity-and-the-energy-to-move-transportation-systems/the-6-kwh-electricity-to-refine-gasoline-would-drive-an-electric-car-the-same-distance-as-a-gasser/

Tesla has a three stage approach to developing the cheap everyday EV. This is to make the funding possible their plan is :-

1/ Develop high end car (I think that is done)
2/ Use money from sales of 1/ to develop mid range car (in progress)
3/ Use money from sales of 2/ to develop low cost everyday EV

But even so there are cheap EV cars that are competitive financially. I find it hard to get information on CO2 emmissions comparison though.

I plan to do both by the way PV and EV (my dead diesel made up my mind and the particulates of course).

Richard

[billi]

Good  wind power in Germany as well

 http://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/topics/-agothem-/Produkt/produkt/76/Agorameter/

[dimengineer]

The point about electric cars is that they are very efficient - motor efficiencies of >90% vs <50% for IC. AND the motor only runs when you need it to. In traffic, when stationary, there's no idling, no electric consumption at all.

[billi]

But even so there are cheap EV cars that are competitive financially. I find it hard to get information on CO2 emmissions comparison though.

... In countries like Germany with an average  Co2 per kwh over 550 gram  its   close to impossible do drive more Co2 friendly with an electric car  ( but  i ignore the other emissions)

Anyway a electric Golf in Germany will emit   103 Gram per km , an 1.6 l  Golf  about 120 gram  ,    battery production emissions  is a  factor as well ...

The price difference of both is  a 10 kw PV 


Billi

[phoooby]

Similar CO emissions for both but local particulates in populated areas with the ICE car. I trust monitoring of power station emissions more than millions of catalytic converters and particulate filters which will receive minimal maintenance during their life and by all accounts do not seem up to the job when installed on some vehicles.

[billi]

.... its about 600 gram of Co2  avoided  by each kWh of PV  ( in Germany   2010 )

for a   10 kw PV  that means  approx 10000 kwh x 0.6 kg = 6000 kg each year avoided

the mentioned 1.6 l  Golf  emits for a yearly driving  of 15000 km x 0.120 kg Co2 = 1800 kg each year




Hope i have my calcs right

Billi

[desperate]

.... its about 600 gram of Co2  avoided  by each kWh of PV  ( in Germany   2010 )

for a   10 kw PV  that means  approx 10000 kwh x 0.6 kg = 6000 kg each year avoided

the mentioned 1.6 l  Golf  emits for a yearly driving  of 15000 km x 0.120 kg Co2 = 1800 kg each year




Hope i have my calcs right

Billi

.........conclusion?  we need lots of PV and EVs now, or as soon as possible, also do not forget the reduction of NOx and particulates, which is estimated to be causing 5 million early deaths a year worldwide!!

Desp

[gravyminer]

something that doesn't seem to get much of a mention with EV's is the energy required to keep the passenger space warm

Surely this is a fair power drain so even in stationery traffic theres a heater running when external temps drop below 18c ?

Or will future EV's have a little windy smith wood burner where the gear shift used to be ?