navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: French mill turbine  (Read 12999 times)
Sharkbait
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 143


« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2016, 09:10:33 PM »

Nothing constructive to add, but this is so cool - please keep the updates coming (regardless of the timescale) and don't give up !!
Logged
Farmerfred
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2016, 08:02:48 AM »

Just for interest, here are some pics of the 110v generator, the turbine also would have simultaneously driven by array of belt driven machinery in the mill as well as through a shaft which travels underneath the road to the old woodcutting shed







Logged
Nickel2
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1731


Method mixed with Madness


« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2016, 10:10:33 AM »

110V, 60A @1800rpm plate gives some idea of the potential power output of the system. I'd imagine that as a professionally installed job in the first instance this was continuously rated. A modern 1500rpm AC alternator would drop nicely in it's place and be a bit more efficient. 6-7 kW continuous 24/7 is a lot of power!
(Note to mods; please introduce an 'envy' emoticon in the above list)  Grin
Logged

1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
biff
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11927


An unpaid Navitron volunteer who lives off-grid.


« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2016, 01:49:57 PM »

Worry not N2,
            We all feel the same way, there is indeed some very nice gear and many happy, rewarding hours of work.
   Labors of love with fantastic potential.
                                          Biff
Logged

An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
book_woorm
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 114


« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2016, 05:40:12 PM »

My Advise is Keep the Tank. I suspect that the tank serves as a surge compensator as well as the weir side controlling the nominal head on the turbine. Just think about the workings of a sawmill for a minute. As the load goes on and off the saws some sort of regulation system has to adjust the flow to keep the speed up.

Is there any sort of centrifugal governor amongst the bits in the turbine room? It would have been connected to the throttle/adjuster on the top of the turbine. With out it you either stall the saw or waste a lot of water as well as the potentially dangerous condition of over speed on no load.

Even if you have a governor when its working and the load alters it will take time to react and this will produce pressure surges in the pipe upstream of the turbine. Especially if you rapidly stop the flow the kinetic energy of the water going through the pipe has to go somewhere. In what you've got the level in the tank will rise and just go over the weir. Likewise on an increase in load the plan area of the tank is such that the level will drop a bit until everything catches up. In both cases the head stays reasonably constant.

Good luck getting it all going again.
    book_woorm
Logged

2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
Farmerfred
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2016, 10:18:48 PM »

Point taken about the seeming need for a governor, but all there is is what I have shown on pics.  Next trip it is waders on and into the tank for me!
Logged
billi
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8936



WWW
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2016, 04:11:03 AM »

Quote
(Note to mods; please introduce an 'envy' emoticon in the above list)  Grin
 ...
    
Nickel , if you find one  , no problem  Smiley  ,   i just had a look  facepalm  could not decide ....  but the  few minutes of thoughts ,... where worth  it ....
 i guess ,  "envy "  is a mix of those  ........   genuflect   lovefirefox  tomatosplat  Smiley  onpatrol   garden


 hysteria  Billi







« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 10:19:40 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
book_woorm
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 114


« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2016, 04:14:59 PM »

On the governor front. If you can work out from the pulley diameters and the plate on the generator what revs the turbine is supposed to be doing then the steam engine/traction engine guys of this world might be able to help you with a suitable 'matching period' type twin ball spinning governor

Book_woorm
Logged

2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
knighty
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2792


« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2016, 07:05:24 PM »

or, depending on your grid connection (assuming you'll be grid connected yeah?)

work out the max output of the turbine, then fit an oversized generator and grid tie equipment to match

then you don't need to govern the power back, because even at full turbine power you're still within safe limits for the generator


makes it a bit simpler, and in my experience simplicity is king with things like this


(you'll still need a big tap / sluice gate / whatever to shut it down in a power cut tho... and/or some big heaters to dump the power into)

EDIT: noticed spelling mistake when quoting
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 01:19:04 PM by knighty » Logged
guydewdney
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4321



« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2016, 08:19:01 PM »

iirc french feed in is a pita. might be easier to go off grid or just use the power in house for heating etc?
Logged

Pic of wheel on day 1
7.2kW Waterwheel and 9.8kW PV
book_woorm
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 114


« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2016, 09:06:15 AM »

Sorry Knighty but even if you go for the old Russian massive overdesign philosophy you still need to be able to automatically shut off the flow when the load is disconnected. Over revving a hundred year old piece of kit is a recipe for disaster. As you've got to be able to shut off the flow you might as well have some sort of throttle ability as well and it looks as though this machine already has that. Its just a question of finding a way to make it work.
Logged

2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
knighty
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2792


« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2016, 01:18:20 PM »

Sorry Knighty but even if you go for the old Russian massive overdesign philosophy you still need to be able to automatically shut off the flow when the load is disconnected. Over revving a hundred year old piece of kit is a recipe for disaster. As you've got to be able to shut off the flow you might as well have some sort of throttle ability as well and it looks as though this machine already has that. Its just a question of finding a way to make it work.

Quote from: knighty
(you'll still need a big tap / sluice gate / whatever to shut it down in a power cut tho... and/or some big heaters to dump the power into)
Logged
mr smith
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 231



WWW
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2016, 05:29:49 PM »

Looks like a great project! More pics please  Wink

Where are you in France?
Logged
Farmerfred
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2016, 05:47:51 PM »

It is in Lower Normandy, back out there again in a couple of weeks to try and work out a plan.  So will take some more pics then. 
Logged
Farmerfred
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2016, 02:47:54 PM »

Now back from France, and left the mill with new joists and a new floor so that part is reasonably safe!  Having talked to my neighbour Franglais style he has told me that the massive crack in the outside wall that has been filled was fixed 2 years ago rather than the 10 I was told, but interestingly he says it was due to the lime mortar drying out because the tank had been left empty.  I am left undecided about the tank but really do not want to split the building apart either so am beggining to lean towards smaller turbines piped.   My thoughts have now turned towards the heating system but I will post the wacky idea on another bit of the forum.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!