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Author Topic: Tiny hydro stream system  (Read 21318 times)
simonmcc
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« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2016, 10:29:04 AM »

I guess the small 200-300 watt rated China turbines will work  and the "water buddy" have a look on the www  ...   My China turbine  defnitly would produce power outside the spec range

Regards billi

How much did you pay for your turbine? I've been looking at the idea of getting one, but the shipping always seems prohibitive !! I am bit concerned with the DIY approach, that if I choose a bad motor/wheel turbine combination, I will lose some of my already tiny amount of power, and also the cost of buying a turgo/pelton wheel and possibility buying a good generator and fabricating a housing, buying a control valve etc - I might easily run up to the value of a cheap turbine. Too many options Smiley
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 10:52:40 AM by simonmcc » Logged
billi
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« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2016, 11:44:52 AM »

Hi ,  i have a 1.1 kw China turbine  , but those 200 watt ones   are available  ,  , Paul  (camilitec)  here on the Forum has/had one model :  XJ14-0.2DCT4-Z

the next bigger one 300 watt is for sale in the Navitron shop   , perhaps they can source  a 200 watt version

They are 220 V AC , so   with your  lower head i expect lower volt ,  but i assume you can get a bigger nozzle

Regards Billi
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
Stuart Ian Naylor
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« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2016, 03:27:28 PM »

Simonmcc,

Only reason why I have been concentrating on DIY shed boffin bodges is that complete product is very much into the realm of Navitron products.
When you get heavy items the china purchase isn't so attractive especially if you need to return it. Also can take up to two months to arrive.

You should have a word with Navitron, but you just seem a tad short on head height for the medium head range and extremely short on flow for the low head range.
Like Billi says you should have a word as they might has something suitable.
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simonmcc
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« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2016, 10:11:03 PM »

Thanks billi and Stuart, I'll contact them. I think I'd be happy to pay for a pre cooked solution if I knew it would optimise my output, and I suppose pay for itself in the long run. I assume it would also have 2nd hand value if the whole project was a flop too.

I was out today doing more measurements, it's a bit more serious since I've  been on here and people are telling me that I'm not completely mad! The penstock will be a bit shorter than I thought, about 80-90m, but I'm a bit worried that a part of it will be flat or maybe slightly uphill. Im going to get a friend to come and measure the fall properly.

I'll report back here Smiley
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billi
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« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2016, 12:02:05 AM »

Simonmcc,

Only reason why I have been concentrating on DIY shed boffin bodges is that complete product is very much into the realm of Navitron products.
When you get heavy items the china purchase isn't so attractive especially if you need to return it. Also can take up to two months to arrive.

You should have a word with Navitron, but you just seem a tad short on head height for the medium head range and extremely short on flow for the low head range.
Like Billi says you should have a word as they might has something suitable.


 whistlie
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realm of Navitron products
, or you can  opt for  the -realm of Powerspout products - ,  or  source  from another supplier  


A 200 - 300 watt China 230 Volt AC  turbine    one can get for  300 -500 GBP  to the door  delivered , including dump load controller and dump heat element , ok i run my 1 kw China Girl  only occasionally   as a back-up generator ,  but  i did a lot of experimenting  with this turbine
Worst case that could happen is  that the AC Voltage  drops too low  , to attach to the mains or to a small charger of batteries , but still  there are more options , like rectify AC to DC   and feed a small MPPT charger

Billi
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 01:00:15 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
simonmcc
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« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2016, 12:29:40 PM »

Penstock:

Given that I probably have a max flow of 6 litres per second (maybe more in very wet weather) and a minimum of around 1 litre per second (in 'summer') what size of penstock should I be looking at?

Is it possible to go too big? I was thinking about getting cheapish 4" pipe, I don't think going smaller significantly reduces the costs, and I cant afford to lose any of my water power Smiley
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Stuart Ian Naylor
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« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2016, 02:26:31 PM »

Think its the other way round 4" is about perfect smaller starts inducing friction and stuff. Have you decided what you are going for? In terms of product and type?

 
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simonmcc
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« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2016, 02:32:59 PM »

Think its the other way round 4" is about perfect smaller starts inducing friction and stuff. Have you decided what you are going for? In terms of product and type?
Ok, cool, I'll make enquiries. Not completely decided yet, leaning towards simply paying for a cheap 600w Chinese turbine; I think that even with fabricating my own housing etc the costs would creep in, and the option of having it arrive in a crate sounds increasingly attractive. I have contacted some more local suppliers, and some are expensive and some have not responded yet.

Don't expect to see pictures of the finished system next week - you heard of measure twice cut once, I'm more a measure a thousand times kind of person Smiley
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Stuart Ian Naylor
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« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2016, 03:59:55 PM »

I think you are only going to get < 300 watt and was working on 7ltr/s 8m head.

It seemed to suit a pelton on the low end of the head height just a little better than a turgo which was a little more short of flow rate.

But with the flow rate you mentioned prob hovering on and below 200 watt to really nothing when you flow gets really low.

Turgo is almost perfect for direct drive 900 RPM with 3 or 4 nozzles.
Pelton needs a gearing of 1:2 with 2 nozzles

With my little bit research I was presuming one of those two was the best option, maybe only those two.
Some of the other navi's will be able to tell you more.



 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 06:16:56 PM by Stuart Ian Naylor » Logged
simonmcc
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« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2016, 04:12:58 PM »

Stuart,

This forum is a mine of information, and I've been trying to make sense of this - it's all very new to me. Someone said with my lower head I'd be better with turgo than pelton, so I switched to looking for those, and I'm hoping the 600w of this turbine I'm looking at is max, and that it will operate with lower flows and produce less power.

Realistically Im expecting 50-150w - well, maybe 0-150 watts depending on my summer flow.
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Stuart Ian Naylor
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« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2016, 04:50:26 PM »

Well if you are ever afflicted by a sudden urge of shedboffintinitus Smiley

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-EFFICIENCY-PELTON-TYPE-WATER-WHEEL-OF-WATER-MICRO-HYDRO-TURBINE-16-SPOON/152029479785
http://h-hydro.com/New_Site/turgo-runners/
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/300ws-12v-24v-ac-permanent-magnet/765968636.html




Its the expected rpm of the turgo that would allow direct drive that swings it for me.
Your conditions are not ideal but workable but with a slightly low head for the pelton and a slightly low flow for the turgo, so you could swing either way just slightly short of optimum.

Peltons can work with less flow and might be less affected by your seasonal change, head height isn't going to change.

I got quite interested in those gravity vortex thingies and want a stream for Christmas.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 05:07:23 PM by Stuart Ian Naylor » Logged
skyewright
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« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2016, 06:07:10 PM »

and I'm hoping the 600w of this turbine I'm looking at is max, and that it will operate with lower flows and produce less power.

Realistically Im expecting 50-150w - well, maybe 0-150 watts depending on my summer flow.
I know little or nothing about hydro turbines, but even so I think that hoping that a turbine will offer anything like a linear drop in generation as flow reduces is something that you should check very carefully before you part with any money...
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Regards
David
3.91kWp PV  (17 x Moser Baer 230 and Aurora PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-UK), slope 40, WSW, Lat 57 9' (Isle of Skye)
billi
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« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2016, 07:00:43 PM »

An adjustable nozzle might be a good idea as well


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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
guydewdney
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« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2016, 08:59:17 PM »

can you hold the water at the top, and release when needed, eg when firing up the cooker? a sort of nano dinorwig? then generate a decent amount and cover the cooker 'cost'
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Pic of wheel on day 1
7.2kW Waterwheel and 9.8kW PV
Stuart Ian Naylor
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« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2016, 10:17:47 PM »

I have to ask though as I think it got mentioned but with a pelton or turgo you don't need a charge controller or dump?

Just a regulator as the speed of the rotation is pretty fixed by the jet provided irrespective of load?

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