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Author Topic: Tiny hydro stream system  (Read 21499 times)
Rocky
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« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2016, 10:57:39 PM »

An adjustable nozzle might be a good idea as well


Billi,

That would be good, but when I tried to procure such a nozzle the price was way over the top for a pico-hydro system. The one I looked at looked the same as the one in the youtube clip. I tracked it down to a German manufacturer and was quoted around 500Euro. Maybe this is a different one?
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billi
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« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2016, 11:14:18 PM »

of course  , one needs a  controller  and a dump  , if one charges a battery  

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billi
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« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2016, 11:54:56 PM »

Hi Rocky   ,..... that Nozzle   i have seen for about 100 euros   

I  do not need it cause have a  reservoir of water  with a capacity of about  3500 m3 , .... and in summer , there is PV any way ...  so  not much need for me to  have an adjustable nozzle

@all


I have a gate valve in my 4inch  pipe about   300 meters away from the turbine and approx 18 meters higher , i have a china 230 Volt AC turbine   , about 250 meters cable length away from my  battery , so i run this AC power from the turbine to a transformer  into  DC  to direct charge the  24 volt battery ....

I open this gate valve    to utilize that waterturbine as a backup generator in winter  , then it produces  about 800 w  @ 230 Volt  , when  i close this gate valve  , the  head in the 4 inch pipe is  cut off  fight

So during  that 300 meter  pipe full of water , that is getting  lesser  and lesser  and lesser head as well ( cause gate valve closed )   i still harvest watts  , ----- but not at 230 Volt  , but cause transformed  into direct 24 volt DC battery charging ... still  produces
,
There are several  ways  , this just worked for me , that way  for now and the gear i got , 

Billi
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regen
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« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2016, 05:56:59 AM »

With a 8m head a turgo is unlikely to work well at less than 6lps so a pelton may be the only way forward. At 6lps and 8m head a pelton should produce around 180 watts with a 100mm id penstock of around 90m length and around 90 watts at 3lps. - do the sums using the powerspout calculator.

What you have is probably a very flashy water supply where the flow can range from less than 1lps through to 10lps over a 24 to 48 hour period. You really need to know the flow rates for a range of conditions in order to determine the best size of turbine to select as the watts produced falls off very quickly as the flow rate reduces. A turbine sized for 6lps may not produce anything at less than say 2lps.

Using the 180 watts max production rate then the annual harvest would be about 750kwh. With your flashy supply then expect an annual harvest of around half this amount.

With a 8m fall then cheap drain pipe should be all right rather than the MDPE but you would still have to be careful not to create hammer or a vacuum which could collapse the pipe.

Don't expect to make a great saving on this type of project but it can be good fun trying!

Good luck

Regen
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biff
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« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2016, 09:24:24 AM »

It is really all about getting the best out of your supply,
                                        I am not into hydro and I don,t know a lot about it but I remember reading all the hard times that Billi and Paul put in getting their hydro installations to work properly.
  It is about the final tweakings which can make all the difference, The angle that the water hits the spoons, the spoons themselves.
  Paul climbed mountains, dragging long lengths of water pipe behind him,to get his installation up and running and then when he had it all up and running it stopped,
  So he had to climb the mountain again to discover that the weight of the water in the pipe had dragged the pipe out of the penstock and down the mountain a bit,
  starving his hydro installation. Pelton wheels are their choice of weapons. I think you should go with a small pelton wheel and find the suitable nozzle through trial and error.
  Different types of spoons give different results.
                       I think it is a brilliant project and i wish you all the success you can get from it. Good luck,
                                                                           Biff
 NB, There is a good thread opened by Marcus on Pelton wheels 3 down from the top in the Hydro section.
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simonmcc
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« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2016, 11:24:57 AM »

An adjustable nozzle might be a good idea as well



Available here: (almost 100 delivered)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252263007258
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Stuart Ian Naylor
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« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2016, 03:04:28 PM »

A lot of product includes some form of adjustable nozzle, most of the peltons and turgo's seem to.
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simonmcc
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« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2016, 12:26:10 PM »

Well, it's been a while. My china turbine has arrived, so now it is time for penstock.



I did some experiments with it using a couple of old pipes I had around, and with about 1.5m head it spins the turbine giving about 50 volts.


Anyway, penstock : to recap, with my new measurements I have 8m head, and 76m distance to run the penstock.

Now I need to buy some pipe. I'm leaning towards normal soil pipe, 4" (110mm) because
1) 4" should be more than I need
2) it is cheap
3) it is push fit, with a good seal
4) in case of monumental project failure (still a real possibility!) I can reuse it, or sell it easily

The other thing I considered was 4" twinwall - advantages:
1) somewhat flexible
2) better protection if it is exposed and uncovered

Cost is very similar, but the disadvantage is that it is much more difficult to seal the sections.

Any thoughts or advice on the penstock? Remember cheap is the goal.

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billi
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« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2016, 12:36:28 PM »

 Smiley

My 4 inch sure pipe  did not hold the pressure (22 m head) with the rubber seals at the connection points ,  so i added a screw .... , but someone here told me that this wasnt very clever .... because the screw will generate more friction  inside of the pipe  ... , so  if needed then i would glue them

I used the orange pipe  that is not UV protected  , but grass grew over the exposed parts in no time   

CU  Billi
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simonmcc
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« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2016, 12:39:16 PM »

Smiley

My 4 inch sure pipe  did not hold the pressure (22 m head) with the rubber seals at the connection points ,  so i added a screw .... , but someone here told me that this wasnt very clever .... because the screw will generate more friction  inside of the pipe  ... , so  if needed then i would glue them

I used the orange pipe  that is not UV protected  , but grass grew over the exposed parts in no time   

CU  Billi

Thanks Billi, so the purpose of the screw was to keep the sections from coming apart, right?

I'm hoping that at only 8m the rubber seals might hold... I tested it with 6m head by standing a 6m pipe upright and putting a joint on the bottom, and it held no problem
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billi
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« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2016, 12:49:46 PM »

Yeah , i expect  for the 8 meter  head , the rubber seal should hold ,  .... i used grease to fit them more easy  ....  , perhaps try to avoid that  whistlie
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johnrae
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« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2016, 01:56:42 PM »

Yeah , i expect  for the 8 meter  head , the rubber seal should hold ,  .... i used grease to fit them more easy  ....  , perhaps try to avoid that  whistlie
How about something like KY jelly.  Lubricates and then washes out in water  norfolk
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book_woorm
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« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2016, 09:16:39 AM »

Hi What are you going to use for a Throttle/ stop valve?

You said that you got 50V out of the unit on the first set up, What current can you get out? and what are the voltage and current curves like as the load increases? this will give you an idea of the regulation of the system. I expect that you might have to rectify it to DC and then have an inverter if you want a mains compatible 50Hz 230 volt output.
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simonmcc
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« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2016, 09:21:48 AM »

Hi What are you going to use for a Throttle/ stop valve?

You said that you got 50V out of the unit on the first set up, What current can you get out? and what are the voltage and current curves like as the load increases? this will give you an idea of the regulation of the system. I expect that you might have to rectify it to DC and then have an inverter if you want a mains compatible 50Hz 230 volt output.

There is a valve built into the turbine which can regulate or shut off the flow.

50v is the free running voltage, there is almost no current generated - any load will simply stop the turbine. I need to test it with the proper head and flow to see what the output is really like. I was just glad to see it turn.

And you are correct, I will need to use a rectifier etc, but that is a long way off yet! Lots of building and experimenting to do before I buy any of that stuff!!
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ecogeorge
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« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2017, 10:00:24 PM »

Hi simonmcc , previous active member of forum -now just lurk .....
where abouts are you ?? i have probably 50m of 63mm pipe foc for the collecting from a previous life !
Location Forest of Dean -gloucestershire.
rgds George.
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