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Author Topic: Contaminants in De-ionised HO  (Read 2151 times)
Scruff
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« on: July 16, 2016, 10:58:38 PM »

I was watering the electron plants the other day and noticed some odd fluffy flakey swimmy contaminants in my drum of de-ionised.
I discarded it and picked another that also had the same gubbins floating about in it.

Apart from flushing out my hydrometers which I store bagged, neither drum has had any interaction with external sources.

Any ideas what it is? I'm not keen to use the electrolyte with contaminants unless they are battery innards, they're not like dirt; they move like tadpoles. Is it a chemical H2SO4 thing or just general flotsam? Funny that it's in both drums.  Huh
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Tinbum
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 11:51:29 PM »

I asked Rolls about using deionised or distilled water to top up my batteries and they told me to use defiantly distilled. I noticed with the distilled water I buy there is a use by time once opened.

I have seen what you mention.
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2016, 12:38:47 AM »

Deionised water often just has things like sodiuma and chlorine removed along with anything else that is normally present in ionic form, so most metals and inorganic counterions, nitrates, sulphate etc. What it does not remove is the things like organic materials which can include bugs. these bugs can readily breed in the deionised water especialy if the temperature is about room temp or slightly higher.

Distilled water should leave all the organic matter behind, but can pick up ions like sodium from the distillation apparatus (especially if it is metal or glass). Getting very pure water is a very complex process, but generally distilled will have fewer organic residues than deionised.

One a container of water is opened to atmosphere even for a short time it is very likely to get  contaminated with particles from the air, and then forms a suitable medium for breeding of bugs - hence the limited "use before" time.
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camillitech
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2016, 08:00:17 AM »

I asked Rolls about using deionised or distilled water to top up my batteries and they told me to use defiantly distilled. I noticed with the distilled water I buy there is a use by time once opened.

I have seen what you mention.

I too have seen this and was puzzled, ended up throwing the stuff away thinking I'd got the drums somehow mixed up from my rainwater collecting days. Yes, Rolls most definitely do say distilled only, but I've been using deionized for years. Not through choice right enough, simply cannot seem to get it up here, even when specifying distilled it's arrived as deionized  fume After seeing one of my 25lt deionized containers full of water suddenly freeze solid when I knocked it over one frosty morning I figured it was pure enough and gave up trying to get distilled. After reading Country Paul's excellent piece

Deionised water often just has things like sodiuma and chlorine removed along with anything else that is normally present in ionic form, so most metals and inorganic counterions, nitrates, sulphate etc. What it does not remove is the things like organic materials which can include bugs. these bugs can readily breed in the deionised water especialy if the temperature is about room temp or slightly higher.

Distilled water should leave all the organic matter behind, but can pick up ions like sodium from the distillation apparatus (especially if it is metal or glass). Getting very pure water is a very complex process, but generally distilled will have fewer organic residues than deionised.

One a container of water is opened to atmosphere even for a short time it is very likely to get  contaminated with particles from the air, and then forms a suitable medium for breeding of bugs - hence the limited "use before" time.


I'm not so sure now, though water for Rolls batteries never passes it's 'use by' date, they drink the stuff, even with the recombinator caps!

Incidentally I always pour mine into a clean 2lt measuring jug to fill the cells then flush the hydrometer out in  that.

Cheers, Paul
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 08:04:27 AM by camillitech » Logged

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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Scruff
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 06:05:24 PM »

Thanks gents. New batch so. Good thing my lot weren't thirsty. I was under the impression deionised has a higher purity than distilled?
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 08:18:34 PM »

Normally you could expect distilled water to be purer than deionised as the distilled should leave all impurities behind, however this depends on the setup as to how much of the impurities are carried over. The distilled can pick up impurities from the appratus used for condensng and holding the distilled water. Deionised water normally only removes the ions such as sodium, potassium, calcium along with chlorine, nitrate, sulphate, carbonate. Anything in the water that is not ionised, such as some soluble organic matter could easily get through the resins used to deionise. The ion exchange resins are normally used in pairs one to remove  ions such as the metals and one to remove the ions such as nitrate, carbonate etc.
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Tinbum
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 09:37:14 PM »

Not through choice right enough, simply cannot seem to get it up here, even when specifying distilled it's arrived as deionized  

You used to be able to get it from the chemist but I think they would be a little shocked when you asked for loads. (I use http://www.buydistilledwater.co.uk)
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Fionn
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 09:47:19 PM »

I worked in an electricity generating plant in my youth, they had a tap outside the water treatment plant for distilled water.
We used to use it for topping up the batteries for the excitation of the generator sets.
The primary use was make up water for the steam turbines.
A useful source for large quantities if you know anyone that works somewhere with a steam turbine.
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camillitech
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2016, 06:49:54 AM »

Not through choice right enough, simply cannot seem to get it up here, even when specifying distilled it's arrived as deionized  

You used to be able to get it from the chemist but I think they would be a little shocked when you asked for loads. (I use http://www.buydistilledwater.co.uk)

Cheers for that Tinbum, just ordered 2 x 25lt and they only charged 13.40 delivery  extrahappy Once bought around 2kg of paint brushes and rollers from Liverpool and they wanted 90 on a 40 order  fume I'll take all my de ionized to Ireland with me and donate it to Biff  Cool

Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Philip R
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 02:08:45 AM »

Deionised water should be crystal clear pH7 and free of most Anions and Cations. ( I tried drinking  a little once after being advised by the station chemist not to do so. I tasted of nothing and did not hit the thirst spot one iota!!

Methinks the fluff might be silica.

When I used to work in the power industry, the condensate was polished in big mixed bed units, ( No not males and females) but anion and cation ion exchange resins.

They got most thing out. But organic residues like those from water sources of a peaty origin would wreck them. Silica leaches out of the steel work of the boilers, turnines and feed and condensates system pipework. It is very hard to remove from the water and can  fur up the backside of steam turbine blading.
Philip R.
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AndrewE
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2016, 08:56:51 AM »

I noticed green growth on the bottom of our lab de-ionised water and was told (by the water specialist) that traces of organic compounds  leach out of the resins, enough to feed bugs that will grow in it if exposed to light.   Some organic analyses needed glass-distilled water to get round this.
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Tiff
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2016, 10:44:40 AM »

I've had a bottle of de-ionised grow organic slime. I normally keep it in the garage where it is dark and cool, this bottle was kept in the shed which is light and warm.
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